To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

I am saying that it would be a good idea to start at a lower rate and gradually raise it.

Durham are so full of privately educated compared with other universities I am not at all convinced they are genuinely treating students from state schools more favorably and as you say state school is not the only criteria.

Our school has been expanding its footprint massively in the last few years. Buying or building new accommodation to expand what it can offer. There are members of staff for all kinds of things that they could do without. It wouldn’t be as good but it’s bloody excellent as it is. It
There is the money to help ease the costs for parents. It will come down to what us parents want - fewer specialist provisions or pay the VAT?

I imagine that there is a fair amount of self selection going on for places like Durham. It wasn't an option for dd to consider as they don't do her course, but I'm aware that some of her friends ruled it out because of the perception that it was full of kids from private schools, and that wasn't the atmosphere that they were looking for.

I am an example of the ‘decisions coming down the line’. My kids are a few years off and if I could afford it, I’d ideally send them to private secondary as our catchment state school is rubbish. We have excellent state schools near us but catchment is very small and we won’t get in. Families are absolutely weighing up their options and finances. I’ve seen some people who assumed they were going to do private moving house (so we have lots of people travelling quite a distance to our primary).

If we don’t start private education we’ll be making very different choices re our jobs. If our kids were already in, we’d be moving heaven and earth to keep them there for exam years etc but the vat is shaping our decision as we’d have a decade of fee paying, inflation and vat to contend with. It’s not something to go into lightly and the extra 20% does worry us. It’ll do nothing for equality though as even if we change our jobs, we’d have money for tutoring, money to save for the kids for house deposits etc.

Education is a good place to start.

Tutoring doesn’t have the same impact on inequality that private education does.

Paywalled but some info here. Anecdotally I know some local privates push kids towards US more than Oxbridge now

Urgh link fail https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/31/oxford-university-private-school-state-surge-20-year-low/

If someone's worried about VAT increases, don't even think about sending your kids to a US university. It's really, really, really expensive.

Low income families are forever being told to live within their means and not to stretch themselves further than they can afford. Many extra curricular school trips are out of the question for them for this reason. If you live in Central London, your outgoings are much higher than for the rest of the population and so the margin of 'comfortable' is smaller. If you plan on sending your children to private school you should factor in increases, regardless of VAT. If you are spreading yourself so thinly that you cannot afford a 20% safety net then you either need to send your kids to a state school or move elsewhere to be able to afford private school fee increases. If you're a medium earner with higher outgoings than incomings, the numbers simply don't work and other choices must be made. Education is important, but most families just have to make the best of the choices available to them - usually between two comprehensives. If you can afford a little more, then maybe a private tutor on top. And if your local comp really is so bad that you cannot reasonably send your child there, then stop voting in Tory governments and effect change and better condition for everyone.

Isn't what you've described leveling down? Ie: allowing state pupils with worse grades to be preferred ahead of private pupils?

I'd prefer Labour to invest in education and address poverty and hardship such that state pupils have access to the best education.

You do realise that tuition fees for university were brought in under a labour government don’t you?

No state pupils with exactly the same grades aren’t getting the places . Given the cess pit of education some on here think state education is clearly state educated kids with the same grades should be made a priority as it’s little more than a miracle if they achieve good grades and a big indicator of ability and resilience.Big big assumption that only the privately educated get good grades. 🙄

It is currently very difficult to recruit support staff in state schools, so the closing of private schools might actually help with this. Also, there are MANY households who earn 60k-80k on a dual income - a 30k/40k salary per earner isn't unusual at all in actual real life. You're talking from your bubble again and frankly you're giving a bad impression of a private school parent.

So patronising isn't it. I think some on here think our children spend their days flicking paper at teachers from the back of the class! Too much watching Grange Hill when they were young.

I bet your children are doing really well in good state schools. They appear to have the no.1 privilege and marker for doing well, which is an educated, involved and attentive mother.

many people who’ve had to go private have done so to avoid an appalling state school in their area. Just because you are lucky enough to have a good state school, it doesn’t mean we all are.

Provision varies massively by area. It’s not really a private vs state “class” thing. It’s people taking decisions based on what’s going on locally to them.

Don't your children have the no. 1 privilege and marker for doing well too or are you not an educated, involved and attentive mother?

Nonsense! While the type of school in the area is a factor and mine are fortunate that we have got them into decent schools in nearby towns rather than the failing school within walking distance, for the majority of people, private is still out of the question! If mine had been sent to the shite school up the road, then other than appealing or home-schooling, we would have had no choice but to send them there. If you can afford private school, regardless of what your local state schools are like, then that is privilege for your children!

Well, I read the article, but I didn't find any evidence to support the claim that Oxford is anti private school or that it openly discriminates against privately educated pupils. Can you point to which bit of the article you feel evidences this?

@Allnormalhere - if you are educated and understand the system and have a good job and skills, there are always options. Move across the country, up your hours, downsize etc etc - if you are actually entirely focussed on Education, you can get a good education for your children if you have a proper job and credit rating. It is only those stuck in council housing, no landlord references, no money etc, bad credit that are truly stuck.
The vast majority of people on all these threads have plenty of choice.

many people who’ve had to go private have done so to avoid an appalling state school in their area. Just because you are lucky enough to have a good state school, it doesn’t mean we all are.

People's view of "appalling" varies. I've spent enough time on the Education forums on here to realise that this is as likely to mean "not Ofsted Outstanding" or "GCSE results not markedly above average" or "too many children from disadvantaged backgrounds" as actually genuinely appalling. I actually find it really surprising how many people who are sufficiently affluent to afford private schools live near appalling state schools.

(DD goes to a school that is "worse" than some schools that people on Education forums are trying to avoid. It really isn't "appalling").

Sorry?

• Is there evidence that the same grades get less places (I assume you mean at university)?
• I'm assuming you are sarcastically suggesting prioritising state educated kids with the same grades but I can't tell?
• I'm definitely not assuming only privately educated kids get good grades (I got straight As from my state comp and 6th form college) - your post is the one that is full of assumptions.

It has been mentioned previously that a lot of professional couples pay up full whack for private schools for peace of mind, including doctors.
Those working part time or not at all, have far more time to support at home - pretty sure plenty of those in the state sector too doing a full on “state plus” model. I would know having observed closely what choices different families made after a great London state primary school. Plenty of good comps that set well go above and beyond for middle class kids.

Yes, many private schools have sessions specifically aimed at applying for non UK universities. I know quite a few who have gone and are looking at US and European universities for example. My children have already expressed an interest in this. Many children aren’t even bothering to look at Oxford now. Cambridge, interestingly, have recently announced they are scrapping the current state school admission targets. It’ll be interesting what their admissions policy will now be.

University of Cambridge to scrap its state school targets https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-68545303