To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

It’s the incredibly short sighted of labour to say they’ll add the 20% on. People are already moving children out of private to get into good state schools in fear of the increase. They’re more likely to have the income to move to a good area and so the rich v poor continues.

Very well said.

It might not be what you see but it does happen, this policy will increase it

Good point about the money and pensions upthread

There will never be a time where inequalities and privilege don’t exist; that’s not a reason to perpetuate the greatest causes of it.

But that will be all catchments in most areas as 90% of state schools
are rated Good and above.

Benefit in what way? Maybe tutored to a ridiculous level and to pass an exam on a wing and a prayer. Doesn't bode well for a successful secondary education however. Such a DC would struggle to keep pace at a grammar. You would hope that their parents would be switched on enough to realise that the school was not the right fit for their child.

What I'm getting is not that it's depressing that parents are sharp elbowed, but that parents will move heaven and earth to do the best for their children.

So be safe, opportunities to engage in learning and exploring interests. Don't you think that's a bit of a low bar? It's absolutely a basic expectation I agree but is that it?! Just let the kids meander through then.

Most people who send their children to private school are wealthy. The research shows this. If those parents do not want to prioritise their children's education, that is up to them.

This is precisely why we should be aiming to make state schools equal; so that every child can access a good school, where children are keen to learn and where there are minimal behaviour problems. There’s too much disparity at the moment, and too many schools failing our children, which is why parents will do anything they can to get their child into the better schools (private or state).

It’s only natural that parents will do what they feel is best for their children. Most parents will naturally choose a school with excellent behaviour and great outcomes, over a school with dire outcomes where serious behaviour problems and violence exist.

People seem to be blaming the wrong group, it’s a poor policy that will exacerbate the issue

More parents putting effort into their dc schooling due to variation of state are just a result of the policy

Not read the whole thread but some parent's like ourselves will be weighing up if the school is worth an extra 20% in fees on top of the 5% rise that seems to be the norm annually. That's alot of tutors, extra curricular activities etc outside of school that can be paid for. If you have multiple children and especially if young, then a house move to a better state school catchment is certainly a choice worth considering.

Again I absolutely agree.
Someone who is excessively taught to the test and not naturally bright will not find a grammar the best place to be.
Youd be amazed how many parents don’t realise that and plow on regardless.
Our local grammar ( according to teachers I know ) have lower sets which they call the non grammar sets. ie students who really shouldn’t be there.

Obviously they don’t tell the kids that. They are mainly made up of the kids who went to the private grammar crammer.

That was me. Quite possibly they are, I don't know the school, why the places were available or whether they would have otherwise been filled by others. I was mainly pointing out that the high marginal tax rates are a significant factor for lots of parents considering a choice between private or state. It means you have to increase your gross income by a great deal to pay VAT and that might not be possible or worth it. There's already a diminishing effort to reward ratio when you get to mid 5 figures and above. They seemed quite happy as they would get a lot of time back (and everyone knows about the high burn out rates for doctors at the moment) and be financially better off.

I wouldn’t say the kids in private preps are tutored as such but the standard of education they receive is higher. Massive gaps. Primary schools need to up their game.

Plus a lot of state school teachers move to prep schools! It’s not the teaching! The state has those teachers, it’s the funding. That’s why I can’t have the equal footing.

I don’t see how the State primaries can do the sport, music, drama to the same level. The teachers at prep schools work all hours!

Would you happen to have a link to the story on Edinburgh? There was a huge story on this in the last year or two but it wasn't specifically about the private/state divide, instead it was about students from deprived backgrounds vs other Scots. This has much wider implicaitons, including for those at ordinary 'good' schools https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-64247475

My kids have incredible opportunities in all these areas and go to a state comp. These unicorn schools do exist!

Regarding Edinburgh uni, my understanding was that they are not taking Scottish private school DC for Law because they don’t pay fees. However, they are still taking English private school DC and plenty of overseas students who went to private schools. So they are penalising the local parents who likely actually paid most into the system locally. I don’t think it is the uni’s fault because they are desperate for funds to keep going and have to prioritise their own competitiveness all whilst keeping politicians happy, but it is an absurd system. You are essentially incentivising those who paid the most into the system to leave. I suppose the hope is so many overseas students with high ambitions end up staying and feed the next generation via taxes until they realise. I suppose it is a modern form of colonialism at its best.

There is more tutoring in the private than state sector. Just because parents are paying doesn't mean they don't top up too.

@RecruitmentGuru "I don’t see how the State primaries can do the sport, music, drama to the same level."

They can't. It comes out of the fees. Oh, and state school teachers "work all hours" as well.

"I wouldn’t say the kids in private preps are tutored as such but the standard of education they receive is higher. Massive gaps"

In some, yes. In others, no.

You can't generalise like that. There are some amazing state schools and some truly awful private ones.

The two main arguments against it on here are:

• The impact will be on those children with SEN whose parents scraped together funding as their local schools don't cater for their needs.
• The parents for whom the funds are marginal will instead buy in the grammer school catchment pushing out other children.

Do you see the problem with this though? Grammar and high performing secondary schools in London are highly selective. Highly. They won't be taking on more SEN children.

The offering for SEN children is a problem. It's a problem for all children not just those whose parents are well off enough to even consider private.