To think good school places will be even harder to find next year because of the VAT on school fees

[Nesca1]

We are are looking at secondary schools for DS. We have our eye on a decent school bang in the middle of a solid middle class area . The school is always over subscribed; this year we would have gotten a place but last year we would have missed out because of how far we are from the school.
Usually, the school offers places to children living 1600m away, last year it was 1400m due to a large number of sibling applications.

Due to the whole VAT issue, i think more parents from the local area are going to be sending their kids to this school, rather than sending them to private schools.

Is this a reasonable assumption? I don't think parents will wait for the policy to be enacted, but they will move their year 6 children into this school.

Yes the 'spreading out over time factor' would further dilute any shock waves.

I think it is a bit of an overgeneralisation to say that most kids in private schools are bright. Many private schools aren't selective and those DC wouldn't necessarily be grammar school calibre. There are a a lot of bright DC in the state sector with supportive parents too.

If the parents were to choose state sixth form with a view to improve chances for Oxbridge applications, they are very much barking up the wrong tree. Oxbridge would be looking at where the DC's GCSEs were taken when considering any contextual factors. Most Universities do this. In any case, if they were to take this ineffective path, it would be driven by misguided opportunism rather than VAT.

Did you read my post or are you just picking out words?

Obviously we don't have tutors busily trying to frogmarch kids through a grammar school exam here. And I have nothing against tutors, I think they are a fantastic resource.

Or...have you just assumed I'm against private schools because I think the state school system works better in the absence of grammar schools? I'm sick of this place - it's so lazy when people imagine what you haven't said and then get pissy with you.

The poster who knows doctors who have pulled their kids out of private to go to the village school - so the village school is undersubscribed then! They are doing the village school a favour.

It will especially for secondary and reception places.

Many just won't start on the private journey and go state instead.

Those whose children are y6 will opt for state secondary if their local school is good.

My two eldest are at private primary school. I want them to finish where they are but then we'll go in to the state sector in y7. My youngest has already got a state place in reception so he'll never go private in the first place.

Even without the vat it is a struggle but the vat is too much more for us especially as there will be no fall back of a bursary anymore.

Absolutely.
Theres absolutely no reason to think private kids are naturally brighter at all.
However.
As my earlier post a 100% success rate at our local private grammar Cramer means that those who can afford extended years of tuition for a grammar place are much more likely to get that place. It’s not the brightest and the best that get into grammar it’s the ability to pay for either a full time grammar Cramer or preprep/ prep or private one to one tuition.

For areas without grammars and without selective schools of any sort ability is irrelevant. It’s all about living near by if you don’t fall into the looked after and/ or right religion etc etc.

And that’s complete bullshit!
https://www.locrating.com/the-best-Secondary-schools-in-Cheltenham_Gloucestershire_England.aspx

I was picking up on all forms of private education of which tutoring is one. Unless I suppose if it’s free like school revision classes during the holidays for exams or additional free support where necessary ie SEN
Once you pay to give your kid an advantage it’s classed as private whatever form it takes.

You missed the point of my post.
I was asked about my area !
In my area this is the case.

As my previous post I have no idea how other areas are doing which is why I am only commenting on my area.

And then let’s look at Bristol.https://www.bristolworld.com/news/every-bristol-secondary-school-rated-good-or-outstanding-3973480

Same story with primary schools….

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-primary-schools-rated-good-8008681

Previous poster listed Bristol and Gloucestershire

Yes, I'm not against private schooling or private tuition. I do think tutors are wasted teaching 11 year olds to jump through exam hoops when I think their particular kung fu to inspire and teach is drawn from their ability to extend beyond the curriculum, led by a student's particular interest or talents, or particular struggles when that is relevant.

It will be interesting locally.
In the small town I live in we border Kent and have 2 private schools. The state school is good in contrast to many others not so good. Some years offers are made out of catchment but others it can be as few as 9 places. A few extra houses are being built. All of these factors suggest that it could have an impact
Previous town literally no private provision for miles. I doubt it would make any difference.

There is an acceptance that private school education - as a service - will be damaged in some way by this policy. Less money, less kids, some smaller schools will close but it will be worth it for the tax receipts (and popular with the sort of voter that likes to stick one to the establishment a la red wall Brexit voters).

What I'm absolutely unclear about, is what Labour will actually do to drive up education standards. The state school system is so broken, in terms of human resource and physical infrastructure (crumbling schools and lack of equipment) that a large slug of finances and time will only get schools back to 1997 standards. Then what?

There's so much rhetoric about VAT on private fees and almost nothing about what they will DO with the funds raised. Have they committed 100% of the receipts to state education? Any detail on what it'll be spent on? What % will be swallowed by the teachers pension scheme?

This is another topic of hyperbole. Yes tuition happens for grammar schools and deprived DC can be disadvantaged because of this. This has been the case for many years. However, in grammar counties there are a lot of bright DC in normal state primaries who have tutoring too. Parents can maybe afford this but possibly not full private school fees. A displaced private school DC will generally have no advantage over these DC at all in eleven plus, particularly as the type of tests are typically non-curriculum based. And FWIW a naturally bright DC will not need grammar crammers. It's a superfluous industry that feeds on anxious parents.

This post seems to go against subsequent ones on grammar schools

Didn’t you say you weee Northampton
https://www.locrating.com/the-best-schools-in-Northampton_Northamptonshire_England.aspx

Absolutely I don’t disagree with you at all.
However a child who is not naturally bright will benefit from private exam focussed tuition VR and NVR etc.

( Also. My post related to a PP on academic ability at private schools )
As an aside the local 4-18 private school does not teach to the 11+ test anyway. Not all private schools near grammars do, that’s shooting yourself in the foot really.

I live in a grammar county and it sounds like it will come as a bit of a shock to private school parents that there are sharp elbowed motivated parents in the state sector who are throwing everything they can at getting their kids into grammar. The extra money PS parents can throw at tutoring can only do so much.

That’s the thing they’ll just do the same. It won’t be a shock it’ll be more competition though

I don't know anyone who is pulling their child out of primary to move into secondary state.

I know a lot of people who will consider putting their child in primary state and moving to private for secondary.

So I suspect you'll be OK if you would have been OK. It will be primary education, where private v state matters less, where people will save.

As I understand it this is a thing in some areas - private at primary to gain an advantage getting kids into state selective/grammar at secondary. I think it's in parts of Essex and possibly Kent.

It will be more competition for existing places (no plans to expand grammars) and likely more funds for more extra curriculars too - not just direct coaching/tutoring for the 11+.

Christ the whole premise of this thread is so depressing.
It's all about competition for places and advantages for your kids and getting ahead by being sharp elbowed. State or private patent you're all missing the point.... No wonder we have such fantastically high levels of teen poor mental health if we adopt this attitude to our kids and their education. They should be safe, have opportunities to engage in learning and exploring their interests. The vast majority of schools can do this. No they won't give your child 'an edge' or a better UCAS application or grades or ensure entry to an elite profession. But dear god all this talk of tutoring and 'ensuring' the place in the right school...

Yep. The better schools in the better areas will be less accessible to families on low and average incomes. I’m also expecting surprise when house prices in good school catchment areas go up too.

VAT on school fees won’t equalise anything, it will just create a two tier state system.

What is interesting is that a lot of people are pulling their kids OUT of private for A-Level because universities and the job market are now giving preference to kids who do well from state over those from private. Even with blind applications, preference is given by the criteria which awards marks to those succeeding from "failing" or "disadvantaged area" schools in the state sector.

I heard Edinburgh haven't offered a single place for law to anyone from private school this year. No idea if it's true or not but given that a high percentage of Edinburgh schooling is private (a ridiculously high proportion compared to the rest of the UK), that's quite the leap by the local university.