I am surprised at the level of Islamophobia on Mumsnet

[Cyclebabble]

I have seen a number of threads on Mumsnet over the last couple of days that question relationships with Muslim men, Muslim Marriages and suggest that Islam is an extreme religion looking to take over the world. I am a Hindu (nominally at least), but come from a country where inter faith marriages are common and where I am friends with and related to a number of Muslims.

Guess what. They are all normal people just looking to get on with their lives, doing the best for their family and friends. They are good citizens and they harm no-one.

There is a building view on Mumsnet that Islam is dangerous, repressive and looking to take over the world. It is now different to any other religion, as are the people.

of course you can. You can ask the poster to explain what they mean because from your pov it's islamaphobic. Of course you can only do that if you feel safe to do so. It needn't be goady or accusatory.

That's how it is supposed to work with the ageism which is nearly never (but not never) deleted when reported.

@Brefugee and yes! I think we would get along well! I would love to learn to sew. I can dona running stich and buttons. 🤣

I wouldn't be a good house wife at all. I can cook though!

Also, I haven't seen anything from you to suggest islamaphobia. Asking questions is encouraged in all aspects of life.

I got called a gullible idiot on another thread for wearing a scarf. So what do I know!

Which thread was that then?

thank you @Springchickenonion it's kind of you to explain it like that because so often in these discussions it can feel as though one person (me) is asking the other (you) to do all the work. But i also think it's important to get personal input.

i have to admit to a kind of fascination with how difficult it seems wearing a niquab. I was at a hotel in Istanbul and there were all sorts of clothing being worn nobody batted an eyelid. But i was sitting opposite a woman at breakfast (different tables but in my line of vision). Outside by the pool was an omlette statin - hands down best omlettes i've ever had - and a this woman was fully veiled, but the face covering was kind of like a surgical mask but longer and not tied from the bottom two corners. and she had to lift the mask and fork in her food for every bite. It just looked awkward. But I'm guessing she was fine with it, she was alone and nobody was bothering her.

I'm just about post-menopausal now, but i did wonder how i'd handle a hot flash if i couldn't just unbutton my coat and tug at my neckline to get air in. Horses for courses i guess.

Thank you @Brefugee not at all. I would rather someone ask than assume.

I mean there's different levels of 'covered' too. We cover as we see fit and what we personally deem appropriate. For example I have a friend who won't wear jeans or trousers. Only skirts or dresses. Whereas I wear skirts, dresses, trousers and jeans etc.

There isn't a one size fits all that for some reason people think there is and get so angry about. This isn't aimed at you BTW.

I mean if people spent more time actually paying attention to what they see muslim women wear rather than getting angry about it. They would see we all dress in different ways. I mean you can look at some Jewish communities and they have almost like a uniformed way of dressing and many Jewish women wear wigs. Yet no one seems to be in uproar about it..and they shouldn't be in uproar either. Its their choice to wear that.

It's all just respect and at the end of the day.

If a lady was to walk In front of me in a bikini, I literally have no opinion on it at all. Other than I might think it has a nice pattern or something. There's this thing where we are perceived to be judging those who don't cover. And ofcourse there are some. But we are judged all the time too. But actually we are told we aren't allowed to judge others. Its not for us to do.

Re the lady with niqab. I couldn't comment. It's not very common in turkey until recently when a lot of Syrian refugees arrived. Traditionally many turks don't wear it. But it's become quite common there now. My dh is from turkey

Doesn't Islam preach that women should always obey their husbands/male family members? I think this often includes adult sons.

also just to add. As a Muslim community we, especially the women. Have noticed a lot of 'cowboy imams' recently on social media and they are spreading so much false information and seem so focused on bashing women.

I just want to clarify that they are WRONG. Oh so very wrong.

So if someone's watched that then made an opinion on something based on it. I would kindly ask you to ignore. Because it does seem a fashion amongst some young men at the moment.

If anyone would want to learn or understand something about Islam. Maybe just because they want to know why we or someone does something, i personally would refer you to either Mufti Menk (Southampton african) or Imam suleiman (in canada).

I only say because I can explain things myself but I don't know it all. I'm not a qualified scholar. But for me they are the best scholars I have come across.

Also ignore if you wish!

Surely indicating the exact area would indicate which museum her daughter works at?

@WhatsTheProblemSarah we are told to respect and obey our husbands. But there's obviously a limit..so if he told me to Rob a bank. I'm obviously not going to do that!

I don't have to listen to my adult son or uncle etc at all. Unless I'm looking for advice

Most marriage vows through out the world say a woman has to respect honour and obey their husband. This is in church ceremony too so nothing new.

Men are also told they have to provide and respect women.

Our Prophet (PBUH) would regularly ask his first wife Khadija for advice. We don't just follow the quran. But also the way the prophet lived etc.

This explanation, of why Muslims don’t integrate into other societies, is quite interesting and a good insight into why Islam unsettles some people.
https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-Islam-integrate-well-in-Western-society
When you are demanding extra rights or bending age-old laws, this does tend to set you apart from those who are happy with the Status Quo, and don’t think that your rights should exceed theirs, especially as some of our laws are also centuries old.
However, once you understand the pressures that Muslims are under, it makes more sense.
If as many nominally Christian people suddenly started spreading the word of Christ (which, as Christians, you’re supposed to) and demanding that rights and laws change to suit their agenda, you can be sure that they would be equally as demonised!

I actually admire them for their faith…

You see Islam gets singled out in this respect but Christianity also says that women should obey their husbands!
Here's an except from the New Testament, Ephesians 5:22-24:

"Wives, obey your husbands as you obey the Lord. The husband is the head of the wife just as the Lord is the head of the church people.
Wives should obey their husbands in everything, just as the church people obey Christ."

In most Christian wedding ceremonies there's a line where the woman vows to obey her husband.

@SallyWD exactly. I mentioned that in my reply too

I thought most people had dropped that shit?

Some people have dropped it from the wedding vows. Doesn't change what's in the bible (the word of God according to Christians).

I'm genuinely curious about this dynamic in real life. If he tells you to make him a sandwich do you have to do it? Or is the idea that he wouldn't do that because it's not respectful to you?

Yeah, but most people that get married in a church don't worship regularly. Many aren't really very religious at all.

@WhatsTheProblemSarah if he asked me nicely then yes I would. But so would he If I asked him.

But in islam I don't have to cook or clean anyway. So no, not really. He has to provide the food etc. If I want to go to work I can. If I want to be a housewife, I can. If I want a cleaner etc then he has to do that.

Obey and respect doesn't mean do everything he said to the point that I'm like a slave. It means for example. I would prefer you not to speak to this person, because actually they aren't very nice for you and then the reason why. That's just one example.

@WhatsTheProblemSarah

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/13661

This probably will explain better than I can, if you want to look at it.

Thanks for replying. I've always wondered how that bit worked in the dynamic of modern Muslim families.

You see Islam gets singled out in this respect but Christianity also says that women should obey their husbands!
Here's an except from the New Testament, Ephesians 5:22-24:

My mother and stepfather believe in the 'wives submit to your husbands'. She's not subjugated, it means that men are the head of the house and families should be traditional.

There are still many other issues with their interpretation of Christianity which has plenty of sexism, misogyny, physical chastisement, superstitions.

But the idea that women are being routinely opposed because of this wedding vow is false and a pretty pathetic example if we're comparing it to the abuse of women in other countries.

@WhatsTheProblemSarah no problem I appreciate you asking

It's one of the most common questions I get.

If you ask my DH I am the boss 🤣

That's an interesting read. I guess, as with many things, the key is working together.

Of course, you could argue that some men might use it to their advantage to get their own way, but the same could be said about the below statement too, so I guess both party need to strive to be reasonable.

In Islam, men are obliged to spend on their wives; the wife does not have to work or earn a living. Even if she has an independent income or she becomes rich, the husband is still obliged to spend on her as much as she needs.

You hit the nail on the head @WhatsTheProblemSarah exactly.

So I work. I don't have to use my money for household expenses. But I happily choose to. I know he's not able to take on the full burden and I'm fine with that. I'm allowed to do that.

We have to remember as well. Just because someone's muslim. It doesn't mean they are going to be the perfect Muslim and practice everything correctlyand perfectly. We are only human. Some people get it wrong completely out of ignorance. Some are jist horrible and dont care and hide it by saying its islam. Others dont know the difference between culture and religion or just dont know. Or some are just doing their best.
As with most people in life in general.