I am surprised at the level of Islamophobia on Mumsnet

[Cyclebabble]

I have seen a number of threads on Mumsnet over the last couple of days that question relationships with Muslim men, Muslim Marriages and suggest that Islam is an extreme religion looking to take over the world. I am a Hindu (nominally at least), but come from a country where inter faith marriages are common and where I am friends with and related to a number of Muslims.

Guess what. They are all normal people just looking to get on with their lives, doing the best for their family and friends. They are good citizens and they harm no-one.

There is a building view on Mumsnet that Islam is dangerous, repressive and looking to take over the world. It is now different to any other religion, as are the people.

Pray tell why would I do this ? If I was islamaphobic I wouldn’t be friends with them let alone have them be 2 of 3 bridesmaids (the 3rd being my sister).

what’s my motive here if I truly hated all Muslims ? If I want nothing to do with them I wouldn’t be including them on my most intimate moments. Learn to think before you post. It’s less embarrassing

What effigy? I missed that. I will google.

A lot of communities in various areas in the UK already have Sharia law. It is not aggressive and helps keep the peace, sorts out problems, disputes etc. We could learn a lot from it instead of being so afraid and thinking it is all extremism.

So we’re idiots eh? How peaceful and philosophical 😂

What I fail to understand if that the Sikh holy book contains the writing of 5 Muslims -Baba Farid, Bhikhan, Satta, Balvand, and Mardana.
How can you be Sikh and Islamophobe?
Can someone enlighten me, please?

could you elaborate on this? In what way are they operating under sharia law. How is it enforced? Who is subject to these rules? Exactly which elements of sharia law are in effect?

And the Koran has Jesus as a prophet but it didn't stop persecution against Christians.

And Jesus was a Jew but some Christians and Muslims come together to hate Jews.

And the Abraham if god is the same guy interpreted in different ways.

Anyway, you need to explain how that poster was Islamophobic anyway, because it seems to mean just about anything the speaker wants it to.

There are plenty of Indians who have been in this country for generations who still cannot speak the english language as they never mix with any other nationalities.

This strikes me as appalling. Anyone who comes to the UK and who willingly stays in their ghetto....Presuming they/ you came for a better life and wider opportunities? Honestly, I can't decide whether they are idiots, suppressed or abused. You'd have to tell me, but as a pretty regular English woman who has never faced any of that kind of rubbish, nor had much tolerance for men trying to tell me what to do or think, I would be quite quick to give you back my opinion.

Busy day so sorry for the delay in getting back to the thread. Firstly to clarify, whilst I live in the UK now I was born and brought up in Malaysia and Singapore which has a high Muslim population as well as Buddhist Christian and Hindu.

I have travelled widely in the UK and never come across any no go areas in high Muslim populations. I see this suggested from time to time but never any credible verified evidence to support this whatsoever.

I note the many occasions quoted of young girls being kicked out of shops for wearing shorts or women shouted at. I have never seen this and if it occurs at all it certainly would not be common.

All religions if mis-used can be used to control and abuse women. I have worked with Christian and Jewish women where men have used faith as a tool of abuse. This is not in any way centred on Islam.

I have asked @DrJoanAllenby to specify which area she means as there are a few which would be in within walking distance of the museum. She doesn't seems to want to reply.

Its very easy to view things through your own lense.
Many of the people who "willingly" stay in their own ghettos are afraid of coming out of them, largely due to some of the attitudes that we have seen on this thread. They dont feel welcome in "white" areas so are accuse dof living in ghettos, and thats before you consider all the women and girls who are given no choice in the matter

I think to say men do not use their religious credentials to be abusive to women is wrong. Some of them do.

This is now twenty years ago in Bethnal Green and Whitechapel but I do remember an unbelievable amount of abuse from Muslim men who would call my friends and I slags, threw bottles and were aggressive. And there were a lot women covered from head to foot and small girls in the same state. It was s very divided area, with the National Front in it. There was a lot of tension and resentment and there was violence. I moved after a bottle was thrown at me for wearing an unacceptably short skirt in their eyes.

I moved to West London where money and lack of poverty made a big difference in the street, but I would still encounter extreme cultural interpretations of Islam such as total body covering, and memorably, a woman wearing a metal grill over hear face and a chain attached to it in addition to being covered from head to foot in black. It was an expression of real contempt.

There are a lot of angry men in the world who will use anything to police and scare women; you don't have to be Muslim. But I do think that this regressive cultural expression should worry us because it's a special form of pleading where people feel discomfort because they wonder at what looks like a clear disparity in status for women. I know the UK does not police what people wear, but the extremity of some men who are Muslims effectively policing what women wear is very concerning. It should not be a requirement to be modest; modest gives this power all to men, and places women second permanently.

Is it that dissimilar to the brits living in Spain sticking in their own "ghettos" and never learning the language?

I can't decide whether they are idiots, suppressed or abused.
How about none of those things,

It's sad to read about this. I'm a non-Muslim living in a Muslim area with many Muslim friends and colleagues. I don't recognise this at all. I've never received any type of poor behaviour from Muslim men. I've noticed they are generally more respectful than white men. I do live in a middle class area where the Muslims are often doctors, lawyers etc so you might expect better behaviour from such educated men. However, there's also a very deprived Muslim area nearby with high levels of poverty - even there I've always been treated with respect by the men.
I'm not saying your accounts are untrue - I'm sure they are true. It's just that I think this must happen in only a minority of places.

@SallyWD - I suppose the difference is that your average non religious UK bloke cannot leverage a whole culture or aspect of faith to say you are dirty or a slag. He might say so, but the effect is largely shrugged off. I left Bethnal Green because of the tacit acceptance by others that I was in fact such a slag. That is the difference.

Poverty did have something to do with this but it was the policing of my appearance which was ultimately nothing to do with anyone else but myself which I have not forgotten.

But if those men were actually sticking to the tenets of Islam they wouldnt have even been looking at you.
Again, I suspect this experience was due to culture rather than religion

There shouldn't be any Sharia Law in this country. We have our own laws.

I believe her, take your gaslighting elsewhere.

Yes but this cultural expression is very visible. And it stays with people. It did me because of the violence of it.

The problem is it is a very visible cultural expression and the people who do it are loud in asserting their religious basis for being anti social or violent. That applies to any group.

What is different is that they could be explicitly degrading to me because I was not a Muslim, and that has stayed with me ever after as a potent example of what religion can mean to someone.

yes, that happened
in the D fail

I can't remember who said it or the exact words but its something along the lines of - Religion is the excuse Twats use to behave like Twats.

I know. But it was frightening, persistent and it was not prevented by anyone. An isolated incident would have been something to shrug off. However that was not what happened over the course of the year spent living there.

Yes it does sound distressing and you were very unlucky to have experienced more issues with Muslims in a year than I have in almost 50 despite living, working and socialising in areas with a high concentration of Muslims most of my life.

She hasn't said she disbelieves her. Look up the meaning of gaslighting, you've just embarrassed yourself.

How on earth am I gaslighting? I clearly said I'm sure her accounts are true! I was simply sharing my own experiences of living in a Muslim area. I think that's allowed.

It seems that some people on MN only want to hear about negative experiences of these communities.