Page 5 | Do toxic people know they’re toxic?

Betternowthannever · 2024-04-27T19:05:59+00:00

Just that! Do they know they are toxic? Do they intentionally hurt others or are they a victim of circumstance? Did their upbringing or an experience make them this way? My DF’s family are highly toxic, as was he. I’m just trying to work it out in my head…. Do they know or are they so engrained in this life/ behaviour that it’s just normal for them? Like a pattern repeating itself through the generations?

HelpMeFindMyMind · 28/04/2024 15:43

Lovinglife57 · 28/04/2024 10:43

As I've already stated ...some ppl are called toxic but infact have MH as I do ...I got help some cope better ..I wish ppl would understand MH abit more

I do understand what you are saying and have lived with MH issues/trauma myself so I'm not insensitive to it or unaware of it.

However, if someone else perceives behaviours to he toxic, then they are. The intention (of lack thereof) behind them doesn't lessen the impact on other people and those people can still experience that person, behaviours/relationship as toxic.

Eg A lot of emotional abuse within romantic relationships isn't 'intentional'. It's simply one person trying to preserve their peace of mind - say around the other person cheating on them. Some people manage their feelings of insecurity internally, using positive self talk etc. Some people manage it by going quiet - they won't tell their partner not to go out but it will be obvious from their mood/demeanour that they're unhappy about it and the other person picks up on that and it puts a dampner on their night out. Other people will kick off so that the other person doesn't go out because its not worth the hassle.

The person going quiet or kicking off is only trying to protect themselves from being betrayed or the fear of it. But it is toxic to the other person. Understanding the reason doesn't change the outcome.

HelpMeFindMyMind · 28/04/2024 15:44

Hatinthislife · 28/04/2024 10:44

i fell in love with my husband and I realised the way I was going on was killing him. I realised when I seen he was the shadow of the man he was before he met me and the only difference in his life was me. A 6ft, strapping man who was literally on his knees crying over me. I had no empathy before I met him and every relationship was about what I could get out of it.

I had no friends, I couldn’t keep them as again, it was all about what benefit I could extract from it.

in hindsight, it was derived from a co dependent upbringing and I let that influence carry into my 20s.

I recognise now the relationship being a victim and also a perpetrator. I was the victim of a lot of abuse but then in turn I perpetrated it. It’s not an excuse or a justification, but an explanation at least.

I was very unhappy in myself then - looking and getting a lot of skin deep attention from men, lapping it up, needing validation etc but it really is because of insecurity and just not being a nice person.

I still have traits that I work on every single day but I am nowhere near the horrible person I used to be.

toxic people have demons but it’s up to them to recognise and deal with, you can’t make them nor is it anyone else’s responsibility. My honest opinion from being toxic in the past is don’t waste your time on someone like that because they’ll only change if they want to and recognise what’s wrong within themselves

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This is a very honest and insightful post.

Lovinglife57 · 28/04/2024 15:55

HelpMeFindMyMind · 28/04/2024 15:43

I do understand what you are saying and have lived with MH issues/trauma myself so I'm not insensitive to it or unaware of it.

However, if someone else perceives behaviours to he toxic, then they are. The intention (of lack thereof) behind them doesn't lessen the impact on other people and those people can still experience that person, behaviours/relationship as toxic.

Eg A lot of emotional abuse within romantic relationships isn't 'intentional'. It's simply one person trying to preserve their peace of mind - say around the other person cheating on them. Some people manage their feelings of insecurity internally, using positive self talk etc. Some people manage it by going quiet - they won't tell their partner not to go out but it will be obvious from their mood/demeanour that they're unhappy about it and the other person picks up on that and it puts a dampner on their night out. Other people will kick off so that the other person doesn't go out because its not worth the hassle.

The person going quiet or kicking off is only trying to protect themselves from being betrayed or the fear of it. But it is toxic to the other person. Understanding the reason doesn't change the outcome.

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Absolutely toxic is toxic ….it’s about managing behaviour regardless of the reason ….I’m just saying sometimes behaviour can be due to MH …but I hear where you’re coming from …

Original poster

Betternowthannever · 28/04/2024 18:18

@Lovinglife57 yes, I presume some toxic people can have MH problems but not all.

I’ve witnessed both and I can understand the behaviour stemming from MH issues, it doesn’t excuse it, but if the person is working on their issues, it makes it a bit easier to deal with.

Those without MH issues, then they just need to be ignored and distanced in my opinion.

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Lovinglife57 · 28/04/2024 18:21

Betternowthannever · 28/04/2024 18:18

@Lovinglife57 yes, I presume some toxic people can have MH problems but not all.

I’ve witnessed both and I can understand the behaviour stemming from MH issues, it doesn’t excuse it, but if the person is working on their issues, it makes it a bit easier to deal with.

Those without MH issues, then they just need to be ignored and distanced in my opinion.

I got help with talking therapy it was amazing after years of being in denial it was the best thing I did …I suffer GAD and OCD …yes I agree nothing excuses it and not all have MH

Original poster

Betternowthannever · 28/04/2024 18:27

@Lovinglife57 well your self awareness is what helps💕 You recognised you had traits that you needed help to control, you got the diagnosis and help you needed and I’m sure that helped turn things around for you. You should be proud of yourself.

My Dd has ocd and anxiety, so I can relate to your issues. That, in my eyes, isn’t the same as my father or relatives. The need for control you have experienced is due to a genuine MH issue. So be kind to yourself💐

I do recognise some toxic/ controlling traits in myself too. I’ve worked hard over the years to keep them under control, but I do catch myself sometimes and it’s not nice, I’m not sure but I think they stem from my insecurities and upbringing.

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Lovinglife57 · 28/04/2024 18:33

Betternowthannever · 28/04/2024 18:27

@Lovinglife57 well your self awareness is what helps💕 You recognised you had traits that you needed help to control, you got the diagnosis and help you needed and I’m sure that helped turn things around for you. You should be proud of yourself.

My Dd has ocd and anxiety, so I can relate to your issues. That, in my eyes, isn’t the same as my father or relatives. The need for control you have experienced is due to a genuine MH issue. So be kind to yourself💐

I do recognise some toxic/ controlling traits in myself too. I’ve worked hard over the years to keep them under control, but I do catch myself sometimes and it’s not nice, I’m not sure but I think they stem from my insecurities and upbringing.

Mine come from my upbringing too bless you ...I just want ppl to recognise that some ppl are not toxic intentionally they may have issues I'm glad I got help ty for your kind comments I am very proud you should be too x

Original poster

Betternowthannever · 28/04/2024 18:34

@Lovinglife57 thank you.

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Crowgirl · 28/04/2024 20:41

stayathomer · 27/04/2024 20:16

But what is toxic really? Another modern label. There’s good and bad in most and some people are unfortunate enough to bear the brunt of the not positive aspects of someone’s personality and assume they’re the world’s worst. It’s like people who say they’re people pleasers, I don’t believe there’s such a thing really

People pleasing can often be a coping method/ issue/ symptom of neurodivergence.

It can also be part of a trauma response.

Believe it or not, people pleasing is definitely a thing.

Being toxic is a bit more vague though. It can be many things. I do believe that some combinations of people are toxic and some people bring out the worst in others. Like being toxic isn't necessarily immutable but also can be.

LittleGlowingOblong · 28/04/2024 21:47

Perhaps this is a bit negative (toxic?) of me, but I wonder whether a lot of this introspection and moral inventory-taking isn’t quite a gendered exercise? How many men do this?

stayathomer · 28/04/2024 21:53

Crowgirl
on mn people accuse you of people pleasing if you do something that seems too much trouble to the person saying it (so it’s an insult) or people who seem quite argumentative say ‘I myself used to be a people pleaser’ which means they once went out of their way for someone, were possibly burned doing it and decided nobody should be helped in the world ever. So technically it’s like the ‘if a tree falls and there’s nobody around to hear it’ scenario as person 1 isn’t being a people pleaser as they’re just trying to help in general, person 2 definitely isn’t a people pleaser so is there really a thing? (Wow I’m tired after that!!😅)