Do toxic people know they’re toxic?

[Betternowthannever]

Just that! Do they know they are toxic? Do they intentionally hurt others or are they a victim of circumstance? Did their upbringing or an experience make them this way?
My DF’s family are highly toxic, as was he. I’m just trying to work it out in my head…. Do they know or are they so engrained in this life/ behaviour that it’s just normal for them? Like a pattern repeating itself through the generations?

Yea I think this is spot on. No one is evil, some people just didn’t learn how to have healthy relationships. I think if you’re quite old and very stuck in your ways, beginning to consider that the way you’ve lived all your life is messed up is just too difficult and painful. At a certain point the ship has sailed..for most. But if you’re younger, I think there’s hope for people with toxic patterns to learn to recognize them and to change but it takes a lot of effort

Agree....
My sibling would rather you believe they're one of life's victims rather than admit they're incredibly toxic.

If I look at the toxic behaviour of those around me, I can see how some of it has rubbed off. My DM was very polite and friendly to everyone in person however in private she would moan about specific individuals and slag them off, sometimes for no good reason. This is a nasty habit that I’ve picked up on too and ultimately has a negative effect on me internally as I’m thinking bad thoughts rather than nice, happy ones.

That’s a really thought provoking POV. I suspect you’re right.

One person I know, who I would describe as toxic, intentionally lies to and manipulates everyone around him. He knows he does this, but always has 'justifications'. He knows his behaviour isn't good, but sees each lie as an isolated incident that happened for a good reason. He doesn't see his overall pattern of behaviour or the effects it has on others. He only sees him getting the specific result he wanted at that particular point in time and doesn't look at the wider context at all.

I think he thinks he's a good guy, who sometimes bends the truth a bit. However, that is far from reality.

I have experienced extremely toxic behaviour towards me from three people, one I was married to, the other is my sibling and the third was a cousin of mine. All three conducted abhorrent behaviours towards me (one broke my bones, one took my virginity when I was 11, one lied about me and refused to come to my wedding so she could create attention for herself). All three truly don't care and have never apologised. They despise me and one even said I ask people to hurt me.

Other people love all three of these people, a lot. Two are married to spouses who know what they are like but they love them anyway, they have friends and family support, the other has a long term partner. So clearly toxic means different things to different people. I think some people know they are bad people, don't mind hurting people and don't care about it. Hence why I trust nobody.

Sending you a virtual hug

Completely agree - can't stand the word. In 2024 it means everything on a spectrum of physical abuse and mildly annoying (which we all are, at times).

Your situation is a complex one. Humans are very good at adapting to their childhood environment, for survival. You'd have to pick out the trauma victim part in everyone. Then consider personality/attachment disorders. There was possibly mainly abusive. Toxic denies those that it's directed at, their rights but it isn't always abusive.
My eldest can be toxic because of a need to control, which comes from anxiety thanks to trauma. I can get controlling. It's like any personality type, MH condition etc, there's sometimes self awareness, sometimes not. People often don't want to face how damaged they are, or that their family are abusive.

@SevenSeasOfRhye same here 😳

Mostly everyone on MN sounds toxic ,

I think they know they are being toxic but they regard themselves as being more “open and honest” than others who hypocritically remain silent or who use non judgmental problem solving from their point of view.

They believe they are right in whatever issue is at hand, so their targets need to be corrected to knowing their place and so the end justifies the means.

I'm toxic and aware. I'm trying seriously hard to change it

My boss is. I don't think she is aware.

People keep leaving our business due to her behaviour. Its blindingly obvious, but not being addressed as she is 'the boss.' I thought she had an inkling. However, I was doing an interview with her a few weeks ago. She actually said (to the candidate) - 'People keep leaving and all we're doing is trying to build a stable team. I know I'm not the issue as I'm great to work with, maybe its you mjf981??' I was gobsmacked at her lack of self awareness.

I would suggest you have never encountered a truly toxic person if you think this.

This is the effectively the adult equivalent of “did school bullies know they were bullies”.

So many adults remember being bullied at school, but so few recall being a bully. The numbers don’t tally. Many who remember being bullied must also have been perceived to be the bully by someone, at some point.

I think unless there is some kind of campaign of cruelty/violence then no, people often don’t realise that they are a bully/toxic. I think even in those circumstances, people of all ages are very adept at not seeing their own behaviour for what it is, self justification is a prevalent trait in all people.

Self reflection is a skill really and very few have it.

Thinking about the toxic people I know I would say that they think they deserve to get what they want when they want it. So they don't necessarily think they are toxic rather that they are special (entitled) humans. People that aren't toxic take other people's wellbeing into consideration. Toxic people don't.

I'd say not as I've come across many narcissists and they are convinced they are right. They project their failures on to others so don't address what they do wrong.

I try to avoid them at all costs.We have a few in our family and they breed mini narcissists. You can see the same issues: excessive entitlement, unwilling to accept responsibility, criticism of others and (annoying) unwanted opinions given constantly. I find the offspring vile and I'd rather just avoid than deal with them.

They definetly know their behaviour is toxic, that's why they get do angry when anyone confronts them on it even it's done in a nice way. They 100% know their toxic but they feel so entitled to do and say the things they do, that they dont care.

Every single toxic person I've met can switch it on and off when they please

I think everyone has the potential to be toxic or to fall into toxic behaviour patterns with the wrong partner, however in my experience there is a difference between those that can recognise that and address it and those that can’t.

if someone is being toxic but takes no accountability for it and always finding ways to blame anyone / everyone else then that in my opinion is truly toxic behaviour. Often this happens with self absorbed people who lack any emotional intelligence meaning they actually believe their behaviour is excusable.

So to answer your question, no I don’t think they know how toxic they are, but if you come across them run for the hills.

everybody is somebody's "toxic".

Honestly I think most of us have very little introspection of our own toxic traits.

This is so very true.I have a very good friend who has left several jobs over the last few years.. She has had the exact same issues at each of them.

Namely that she is a chronic people pleaser who expects the same level of people pleasing from others. She accepts she does it but doesn't understand why people have an issue with it. If we were all just 'nicer' to each other, the world would be a better place. So she considers herself to have a higher moral code than others.

She raises grievances, gets the union involved, fires off emails all on the back of having 'found her own voice' and assert her needs/address the toxic culture of bullying in the work place and cannot see for a second the toxicity coming from her. None of her grievances has been upheld following investigation and she just leaves.

She takes a similar approach to friendships. She genuinely believes she has a higher moral code than other people and that everyone should be more like her. She descibes other people's lack of people pleasing as toxic.

She's given me detailed accounts of exchanges she's had with colleagues, managers and unions, other friends and, tbh, they must be losing sleep over which way is up at times based on some of the issues she has raised.

I guess that mostly not

I don't think so actually! I have a family member who is a really hard bitch and says truly awful things behind other people's backs, always. She can't stand it if you say someone else looked lovely in their wedding dress or someone is lovely, she'll find any criticism at all. Always looks up the price of presents and complains (behind their back) and gives horrible broken or half used regifts herself (incredibly wealthy). She seems exceptionally happy and refers to herself as a really nice person. It baffles me,the self delusion. I know my many faults and listen if a trusted loved one says I've been doing xyz.

But, that said, I'm horrible to the person above 🤷🏼‍♂️ it's completely intentional. I never initiate contact, give them no personal information, turn down (politely) all invitations and display a stony face at all attempts of gossip bonding or just say 'that's an unkind thing to say, do they know that you gate them?' So, I'm a massive bitch to that person i guess.

There are people who definitely don’t and are totally dissociated from their own negative traits and wrongdoings, and are so self centred they can’t see beyond their own wants/needs.

Then there are people who are more narcissistic/sociopathic who genuinely enjoy hurting other people. Those people I think just have a different idea of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ and see hurting people as powerful and enjoyable.