Assisted dying debate next week… To think this is a relief. So glad they’re finally debating this important issue.

[Mavenss]

We will be able to see which MPs are for or against assisted dying.

This Monday 29th April, assisted dying will be debated in Westminster for the first time in two years. An absolutely incredible 203,000 people added their name to the government petitionspearheaded by Dame Esther Rantzen to make this happen, creating the largest ever parliamentary petition on assisted dying.

There will not be a vote on Monday, but this debate will be the last time before the General Election that MPs have an opportunity to show you that they are listening to our calls for safe and compassionate choice at the end of life. A majority of voters in every constituency support an assisted dying law.

The debate starts at 4:30pmand you can watch it live online through the UK parliament website.

YABU- it’s a silly idea, why are government even debating it? Assisted dying is a terrible idea.

YANBU - I support the debate and assisted dying (under the agreed circumstances)

I’m interested in the MN feedback here.

I have had a ringside seat watching both parents decent into dementia for the past 20 years. Palliative care is irrelevant. My DFs default state of mind has been angry, my mother anxious and afraid. Neither of them would have wanted to end up like this but at least they weren’t expecting it. Well, I am 100% expecting it and I am not going to ride it out until the bitter end because some people feel squeamish about death. People should be able to state at what stage they want to end their lives, peacefully with your loved ones knowledge.

YANBU and I absolutely support it. Not just for terminal illness, but other chronic heath conditions or disabilities. Basically absolutely anything where i’d be unable to care for myself.

I also want there to be a request we can sign to give permission to be taken for an assisted death should a late diagnoses come in for illness such as dementia. That scene in Still Alice where she leaves instructions for herself to try and end her own life stayed with me.

I absolutely support this - I don't want to die slowly and painfully in a filthy NHS hospital, in pain and begging for water/ pain relief etc. I would prefer we sorted the NHS out but since the country keeps voting for these fuckwits, give me the option to escape this hellscape quickly when the need arises.

I am fully in support of assisted dying, and am thankful that I live in a country ( Australia) where it is in force. It was voted on by each state individually, and the legislation was approved very smoothly. It had been discussed publicly for a couple of years and it was obvious that the vast majority were in favour of it. There has not been any expansion of the criteria , and it still has the same rules as it did in the beginning.

I do hope that the UK debate on the subject isn't derailed by people using Canada as an example !

Please don’t just look at Canada. Assisted dying is available in most of Australia now with very strict guidelines and I believe it’s been a positive thing here that most people seem to agree with.

I think the Isle of Man is the ‘one to watch’ for the UK, not Canada with its constitutional wrangling.

https://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news/national/24216236.isle-man-assisted-dying-law-only-residents-five-years-more/

I want it, because there's hereditary dementia in my family combined with long life expectancy. But I understand the concerns. I have a friend who is an oncologist and I asked her what she thought about it. She said she definitely supports it in principle, but has serious concerns about how it would actually be practiced, and that that is a common position amongst doctors.

I used to be 100% wholeheartedly in favour, campaign ready and everything, but. The NHS has deteroriated so much. Resources are so short. I can definitely see economic rationales creeping in now.

And then there's the very very difficult question of mental illness and capacity. I've seen the stories about physically healthy people with mental illnesses that have not responding to treatment opting to die. I have my struggles, but I'm very fortunate not to have experienced depression so maybe I just can't understand this but....I guess? If we accept that mental illness is illness, do we then accept that some cases are untreatable and the person's wish to end their suffering should be respected in the same way as for a physical illness? But what if its a symptom of the illness that makes them feel that way? But again, if the illness is uncurable, does it even matter if its a symptom?

So yeah. Its complicated. Its not as straightforward as I once thought it was, but I would say, overall, I'm in favour.

And and - sorry for the double post, but its a topic that I think about a lot - isn't there something in between euthanasia and the current way? When my grandmother was in her mid eighties, advanced dementia, advanced Parkinsons, weighed about 5st, broken both hips, etc etc....she got one infection after another and they just kept hammering her with antibiotics and every treatment in the book until my mother intervened and said for the love of God, stop. Just keep her comfortable and let her die. Why is the current way to keep aggressively treating people in states like that? Why can't doctors say "look, we could probably treat this current acute crisis and extend this person's life a bit longer, but we shouldn't. At this point it would be in their interest to give them painkillers and let nature take its course". Why isn't that the norm, rather than going directly to euthanasia?

The phrasing of your poll is quite biased though, which does give the impression of having pre-judged anyone who might hold a different viewpoint.

I think the polls and the consultation questions from the Isle of Man, that were addressed to the public and to all doctors there, would be worth looking at.

Yes you’re right, wasn’t on purpose. I think it’s a highly emotive subject. Definitely not prejudging though. People have their own reasons for thinking a certain way. I can’t imagine thinking that people should carry on living in significant pain/ dependency on others / no quality of life, if they themselves have decided they want to end it. I can understand why there are concerns about how the process is managed though. As pp have mentioned in eg. Canada.

I think we can do it here in the UK, I hope we do, for me it’s a sign of a civilised society that people can leave, if they want to. But it’s highly complex and the rules and regs associated with it have to clear.

@GreatGateauxsby’ It is also a feminist issue (which i had NO idea about) and that was the bit that tipped me over into the No camp.
Its going to be Sue and Kate not Dave and Bob who are heavily pressured and agree to "do the right thing" and shuffle off quietly because the grandkids need money for uni and are they REALLY such selfish bitches they want to live another 5 years when they have stage 3 cancer and their best years are behind them. It will be protrayed as a noble act but in reality its about intergenerational wealth gap and getting your inheritance now now.’

I’d never thought of it that way. But I can imagine it’s real, sadly. For me it’d be another recognised thing to guard against, not to prevent the legislation for.

Agreed

Euthanasia and assisted dying are different things.

The easiest solution would be to allow people to purchase Nebutal and make their own choice.

I agree with you here especially for those that have mental health issues and can't see the light at the end of the tunnel or those that are vulnerable and their relatives might want to bump them off for their estates.

I’m in agreement but think the term ‘assisted dying’ is wrong. It implies ending your life early, whereas I believe the biggest potential benefit is for people to choose not to have their life artificially extended when such extension is demeaning, frightening and painful. Example: someone in their 90s with really advanced dementia (who cannot swallow, speak, is doubly incontinent) repeatedly going into hospital for scans, transfusions, intrvenous antibiotics, tube hydration and nutrition, operations. All that would be needed is a change to a key GMC rule that all interventions to prolong life are in the best interests of the patients.

It’ll never happen.

If you stand back, you realise there’s a whole medical industry feeding off this, not to mention valuable opportunities for governments to raise taxes to pay for medical staff via migration (where migration artificially raises GDP).

I’m so sorry you’re going through all of that. I agree that it’s your choice, one’s choice to die if we want to.

And it’d be much more humane to be able to do it our own country with loved ones, at the right time. Not have to preempt it by eg. Going to Switzerland earlier, or worse leave it too late and not be able to go at all.

I agree. It’s not as if the government gives a shit about any of us. You can bet your last dollar they don’t suffer in the way you describe.

Not to mention the cost of going to Switzerland and the inordinate amounts of hoops you’d have to jump through. Those in torment with mental illness will never be allowed there as by its very nature anyway.

That’s so good to hear. If it’s working the way it was planned in Australia, it can do so here too.

This is powerful.

Couldn’t have put it better. I’ve never understood this “life at all costs” policy that humans seem to cling on to. Having seen my grandad wither away to a shadow of himself due to cancer, wracked with pain and crying out for the peace of death in his lucid moments, which was just horrific for his family to watch play out, it’s terrible that we think it’s ok to make people stay when they clearly want to go.
We can grant our pets a peaceful and dignified end when it’s time. I cannot fathom why we can’t do the same for people.

Because of GMC rules and the Harold Shipman case. No doctor wants to be struck off. We had a similar situationand we did similar to you. At the end of the day, hospital became a frightening place. I often wonder what proportion of families do the opposite, through lack of knowledge of the signs of dying, and push for repeated, intrusive and frightening interventions?

The Scottish Parliament will debate and vote on assisted dying this year. On actual legislation, not just a petition
just shows how people on here tend to conflate England and the UK

Scotland is looking into it (although I wouldn't trust the Scottish government to manage a small corner shop, let alone a significant matter of social policy), as is the crown dependency of Jersey. I think Scotland and Jersey are looking at how the Isle of Man managed it and what safeguards have been agreed, including a minimum residency requirement so it doesn't get 'death tourism'.