Assisted dying debate next week… To think this is a relief. So glad they’re finally debating this important issue.

[Mavenss]

We will be able to see which MPs are for or against assisted dying.

This Monday 29th April, assisted dying will be debated in Westminster for the first time in two years. An absolutely incredible 203,000 people added their name to the government petitionspearheaded by Dame Esther Rantzen to make this happen, creating the largest ever parliamentary petition on assisted dying.

There will not be a vote on Monday, but this debate will be the last time before the General Election that MPs have an opportunity to show you that they are listening to our calls for safe and compassionate choice at the end of life. A majority of voters in every constituency support an assisted dying law.

The debate starts at 4:30pmand you can watch it live online through the UK parliament website.

YABU- it’s a silly idea, why are government even debating it? Assisted dying is a terrible idea.

YANBU - I support the debate and assisted dying (under the agreed circumstances)

I’m interested in the MN feedback here.

I’m really split on this. The human in me says we treat our animals better than our dying and wouldn’t allow them to be in so much pain. I’ve also cared for a close relative in the final stages of cancer and it was traumatic for them and for the family.

however another part of me thinks it’s a slippery slope and humans can’t be trusted. I really don’t know.

I don’t agree. I’ve worked with too many vulnerable people of all ages, who if offered the option, would say ‘I’ll just be off now, so’s not to bother anyone’. Every part of our health and care services are under funded and stretched; I have no faith that a service set up to end people’s lives would receive enough funding to involve the safeguards and nuance required for assisted dying to be performed ethically. If there is such a thing.

Id far sooner see better and compassionate support for those who are ill and/or dying, and in MH services of all kinds.

I want the option of assisted dying, and have no doubts about it whatsoever. Having watched my mum's end of life, she actually went peacefully, but the 3 years of hell her hideous degenerative condition (7 years+ from diagnosis), was painful, lonely and mute-she couldn't speak or communicate. Tears rolled silently down her face as she pleaded with her eyes to die. Quality of life should be the top consideration, not quantity. We can keep most people alive for years in terrible distress with modern day medication. It's so cruel.

This is horrendous. I'm so sorry you went through this. We really must give people the option to go before it gets this bad.

But we have the right to kill ourselves for any reason don't we? If we have capacity. My body, my choice. And if this lady achieved the peaceful end she wanted that was her right. Or would you sooner she did it by her own hand in a worse way?

This would also influence my thinking too. I hear and believe the horror stories, but am also certain that older and disabled people would be coerced into taking this action to “help” their families.

I don’t know what the answer is, but am unconvinced any country currently has the right balance.

It has been legalised in most Australian states now too.

As much as I like the idea of waiting for more funds to be spent on improving palliative services for average people, it’s never going to happen now with the huge inter generational transfer of wealth that’s happening around the world and health services being run down across the board.

In the mean time, the stories of people with extremely painful deaths is harrowing.

The concern I would have is the potential for elder abuse by relatives who try and convince them “it’s time to go” so for that reason it should only be for terminal illnesses where it’s more difficult to make people comfortable and at the patient’s own request and repeated multiple times with at least two doctors. The patient should also administer the trigger to release the medication themselves.

The information the Canadian situation was even worse than I expected, especially this: "In 2019, a Quebec judge ruled that restricting access to those who had a “reasonably foreseeable death” was unconstitutional, forcing federal lawmakers to amend and expand the existing laws"

So much for it being solely for terminal patients, and even then only when things become unbearable ...

I'm in favour of assisted dying. I will probably get slammed for this but we have pro choice with safeguards in this country for abortion and allow DNR. Assisted dying is similar and should be possible with safeguards.

For instance, my relative with a diagnosis of Alzheimers should be allowed to add a clause to her medical records upon diagnosis that when she reaches a set point e.g. not recognising family that she would like this to be done. It should be offered alongside DNR forms and agreed by two doctors. There should be a required length of time between the request/decision and the outcome however to allow for changing their minds/checking they aren't being manipulated.

Yes, this. Time and time and time again, these things start out with the most noble of intentions, but they never stop there.

You always have to look at the worst case scenario - and then probably multiply it by ten. The best/nicest scenario is never where it remains.

People may scoff at this suggestion, but I can well believe that, further down the line, we will get to a point where people over 90 will be pressured to 'do the right thing' and not 'be selfish, when they've had their time already'. Then, before long, it will be the over 80s; then the over 70s; then maybe those with additional needs of any kind that make them less 'productive' than more privileged people.

Worthy though a lot of the cases for this may seem right now, it is so thoroughly open to limitless abuse, once the floodgates are open, there will be no turning back.

I dont think its a "silly idea" and was initially pro

However, i have come to the conclusion all forms of euthanasia should continue to be banned.
As demonstrated in other countries even with safeguards and regs it is hugely open to abuse.

It is also a feminist issue (which i had NO idea about) and that was the bit that tipped me over into the No camp.
Its going to be Sue and Kate not Dave and Bob who are heavily pressured and agree to "do the right thing" and shuffle off quietly because the grandkids need money for uni and are they REALLY such selfish bitches they want to live another 5 years when they have stage 3 cancer and their best years are behind them. It will be protrayed as a noble act but in reality its about intergenerational wealth gap and getting your inheritance now now.

Given the population crisis we are facing i believe the government will 100% legalise it in the next decade if they reasonably can.

I agree that the situation in Canada is concerning and that the parameters have changed pretty quickly.

Tbh I was quite surprised at the callousness of the canadian system. I am genuinely worried that if people with high care needs can’t be accommodated euthanasia becomes the only alternative. In principle I am for euthansia, I think it most cases it would be humane to let people choose, but only if it’s a real choice iyswim. It’s extremely difficult because there are so many people who would like to have the option, me included.

I've always been in support of euthanasia. My grandmother was a massive supporter of it and watching her die slowly of dementia knowing she would have preferred euthanasia was hard.

But on the other hand in the UK we live in a country where DNR's were put on the files of people with learning difficulties during covid. So I don't trust the powers that be to have our best interests at heart.

I want to live in a country where euthanasia is possible. But I also want to live in a country where people with disabilities are treated with respect by the government etc. And without the second one, I don't think the first one is ethically possible.

If I want to die that should be my right and no one else’s. Whether its because my cancer isn’t killing me painfully enough, my mental health just wants the black clouds to go away or because i simply don’t want to live any more it’s irrelevant- it’s MY body and should be MY choice.

Currently have incurable cancer and am spending as much money as I can enjoying life before I go. Theatre, meals, short breaks, upgraded car, real Barbour coats for the dogs etc. No particular interest in paying anyone’s uni fees or inheritance and they’re all very happy to see me blitzing the money and having an absolute bloody ball doing it!

I'm 100% in favour of this. Not just due to terminal conditions but chronic conditions impacting quality of life.

I am currently exploring euthanasia via a provider in Switzerland for myself. This isn't really the option I want but this is all there is

I have multiple severe chronic conditions that have tortured me beyond recognition for years. I've been in and out of hospital and spent 7 months there not so long ago. My quality of life is severely impaired and it is worsening. It is unlikely I will die soon as these conditions are not considered terminal. Instead they destroy every part of you yet somehow you do not die easily.

I am beyond terrified of my future. I am terrified of being at the mercy of cruel hospital staff ( sadly I've seen alot). I'm terrified of being left in hospital begging for pain relief and water ( sadly this also happens alot). I'm terrified of being at the mercy of abusive carers. I've already lost so much of my dignity I have suffered a level of pain physically and emotionally that most would never experience in their lifetime. Being able to access this in my own country when I can truly take no more would give me all the strength to keep pushing on and I know many in my position feel this way.

People don't realise that having these options actually helps many people keep going. I know I will have to go alone to another country when I'm not quite ready and somehow explain that to my child in order to escape the bedridden torture I have waiting for me.

Even if people want to do this due to severe mental health conditions, they absolutely should be allowed. Who is anyone to determine what an acceptable level of suffering is.

Society should invest in care, NHS etc but whilst they fail to do that people are suffering torture most could never comprehend or taking their lives in horrific violent ways. We should be given choice.

I understand the risks of coercion and that is my only caveat. Yet selfishly, for me and all those other people I know existing in the shadows, this option would mean everything and I believe would keep many people alive for a little longer.

Very poor alternative care is a form of coercion.

Scary stuff...and of course people will cheer it on. Look at Canada. Read Matthew Parris's article where he coolly outlines exactly what will happen (and frames it as a good thing).

I used to be very much in favour, I've changed my mind after seeing how it has been implemented in Canada.

Because your boyfriend dumped you? Because you have psychosis and think the FBI is after you? Because you can't access painkillers/carers/housing?

And then OK, you can. But should the state assist you?

If you can get assisted dying easier than a counsellor, a place to live or a GP, it's unethical.

Agreed.

Agreed.

The problem with dementia illnesses is that by the time someone has no quality of life or no longer recognises their loved ones they probably also don't remember their instructions. The human desire to live is quite strong so you could have a situation where doctors are attempting to carry out the previously wished for euthanasia and the person is now terrified of dying and begging not to be killed. What do the doctors do then? Do they lie to the patient about what they are doing and what is going to happen to them?

In principle I agree with the option for terminal illness but like others I share the concerns about where it ends up. I still think the debate in parliament should take place though.

I was all for assisted dying, especially after watching my father suffer, trapped in his body after having a massive stroke whilst on the operating table. It was torturous for all of us. He could blink with one eye and move a finger, he survived like this for 2 weeks and it was hell, absolutely fucking awful watching his body shut down on him.

So when I read a recent article about a young Dutch woman choosing euthanasia due to her issues with anorexia I was shocked. She’d tried to commit suicide several times and had various therapists over the years, paid for by her parents. They were with her on the choice that she had made as she found living too difficult.

I’m now not so sure about my original thoughts as this has really thrown a curve ball, where do you draw the line 🤷‍♀️