To feel so sad about what happened to our town?

[AbstractThought]

I wasn't born here, DH was, and I have seen it discussed on MN in the past. I am aware that many towns across the UK are in a similar situation, so this probably isn't anything special, but since most people talk about shop closures I wanted to look at it from a different angle.

In the past decade we have a ton more issues in the town than previously, often relating to homelessness and addiction, and the town centre, what's left of it, has become completely over run by these problems with groups of people fighting and street drinking. A lot of these people are in extreme difficulty, whether mental health related and/or drug issues. Crime shot through the roof, and even about 8 streets away from this it spills outwards to us in what was once a fairly quiet place to live.
We now have a constant stream of siren noise, day and night, helicopters are daily and whilst we personally haven't felt in any actual danger there is a horrible sense of decay and hopelessness. Just nipping to the closest supermarket is depressing, there are a lot of neglected animals and people having meltdowns in the streets.

It is how it changed so quickly though. I can't get my head around where it all started or why. I am aware of the contribution of politics, covid, all of that stuff, but it seems so incredibly extreme. The siren noise is the worst, it is piercing and never seems to end. This also seemed to explode around the same time as the area went downhill. Probably a mix of police and emergency vehicles. It is difficult to work or relax at home and if you are a light sleeper it can have an impact there too.

What I am wondering is if this is commonplace now, in what was once a thriving town? It is the sheer amount of troubled people which seems to have escalated the most, and I can't get my head around how this has evolved, in such a short space of time. It is like they weren't here, then suddenly appeared, it is difficult to describe it. Obviously the council can't do a great deal to help and I have no idea what the answer is. The most upsetting thing is that a lot of these people are so messed up that they can barely talk in a way that is decipherable. This includes children, and there is a growing amount of people who have barely any teeth. This is a fucking severe problem and I have no idea what will help it. We have mucked in with a few local charities but it barely scratches the surface in my opinion.
We are moving due to work relocation soon, so whilst it may not be 'our' problem after we have gone, this isn't the point. I am just so sorry that it has come to this, in likely even more places than just here. WTF happened??

I think it's just a popular british thing to moan about intellectualism, sadly.

Someone on the reddit thread that I linked joked that the tabloids despise intellectualism yet whenever there's a national problem sport headlines such as 'The Boffins are working on it!". It's infantilising.

@swimsong and more to the point I dont think they have any qualms these days about out and out lying- we have put more money into xxxx - they just know it won't be challenged or asked for detail as so many client journalists out there- so they are happy to feed the population bullshit- a big fact is they have hugely underfunded councils who are forced to try and make money now in parking, nabbing people for 2 minutes over, speeding fines etc. they have completely caused so many issues by dogma driven politics designed to appeal to certain voters (Brexit a prime example) and yet have ended up pleasing virtually no one. Must of the population think they are batshit greedy grifters , with another bunch thinking they aren't quite Nazi enough for them. ( most of these appear to be old colonel types or people who liked the national front and bought their council house and have got by ok simply due to that- but do like criticising anyone else struggling

with another bunch thinking they aren't quite Nazi enough for them. ( most of these appear to be old colonel types or people who liked the national front and bought their council house and have got by ok simply due to that- but do like criticising anyone else struggling

Yes, the bootstrap brigade!

Britain has mostly reverted to Georgian England for the poor, just with the Internet, electricity, cars, and Amazon.

Overpopulation, people in power who don't give a monkey's backside, an ageing population with loads of comorbidities, a gulf between rich and poor that cannot be crossed now....

I'm also Generation X but have read a lot of both history and science fiction and unfortunately the writing for a lot of this has been on the wall for a long, long time.

Watch Our Friends in the North for just one fictionalised depiction of the decaying of society.

Could we have stopped it? Possibly but 1979, 2010, 2016 and 2019 in particular would have had to have looked very different as too many people a) believe the drivel the mainstream media pump out, act accordingly and can only think short term and b) only care about themselves.

I'm selfishly glad I'm no younger, I really think the next generations are, quite rightly, going to despise us though.

@hairbearbunches maybe the gvt should have made it clear then with brexit that there wouldn't be less immigration -just more 'different' immigration- as that is indeed what's happened.

Good grief. Thought it wouldn't be long before the fascists were out.

Income disparity it at 1960s levels according to Commons Library - so not at Georgian levels but it's not great to go backwards.

No one ever offers themselves or their offspring up for culling!

I'm reminded of an episode of Torchwood (remember, the Dr Who Spin off from the noughties?). The storyline where aliens demanded 10% of human children or else they'd destroy the planet.
The UK gov sat around a table deciding whose children to offer up : lo and behold they chose those living on council estates. Of course, their own children, regardless their humble roots, were to be protected.

Sci fi is often chillingly prophetic @Desperada68, I agree.

Someone made the point that we are the 6th ranking country but actually we should look at gdp per capita. No! GDP per capita - That stat is skewed too as a small population in a richer country is higher ranking. A good barometer is France. Their 68 mill to our 60 mill population. They rank lower in the ratio stats. We are doing relatively well. But you would not know it with the political slant on MN. They think labour can do better, yes they will spend, but how does this improve growth. The Tories right now are not true tories - that is the actual problem. Truss tried but had no chance to follow through. Conservative values include INCENTIVE. No incentive with high taxes. No growth either.

It's pretty clear to me what's happened in places like Southport / Mansfield / Halifax town centres. It's not one event, but a combination: savage public spending cuts to local authorities meaning less investment in services from mental health support to street cleaning to public transport, high inflation meaning people have less money to spend in private businesses, and the changing nature of retail as online services replaced many shops, accelerated by COVID lockdowns.

One of those three things is probably structural and inevitable. Two of them are political choices. Austerity plus Brexit plus Trussonomics have fucked up already vulnerable towns.

Truss tried ...

Not everyone gets the best job, it is not how it works. Some do the shit jobs, toilets need cleaning, and working in every capacity should be respectable. It should be shameful to say it’s not fair, I didn’t stand a chance and impossible to just live off the state if able bodied and no MH does not count.

they will spend, but how does this improve growth.

Trickle down economics doesn't work.

Spending (investing) on infrastructure supports productivity improvements and growth.

We have low growth partly because of our shattered infrastructure. If you can't get a GP appointment or hospital treatment, you can't get back to work if you're sick. If you can't get to work reliably because the trains or buses don't run on time or at all, your employer can't rely on you, won't promote you or reward you. If schools are falling apart ot college courses are cut or underfunded, you can't access the skills you need in a global knowledge economy.

(I'm not sure Labour's timid approach to spending/investment will do enough, however.)

Perhaps we are doing relatively well but a walk down just about any high street in the U.K. will show you that it’s not being reflected in most people’s lives.

@coldcallerbaiter GDP per capita - That stat is skewed too as a small population in a richer country is higher ranking.

err, that’s the point. It’s about productivity. The UK has a ton of people and our productivity is crap. We use immigration in lieu of growth and our GDP per capita is still going in the wrong direction.

I said people in general are thick, but then again if the average person is thick as fuck then that's the standard so it becomes normal. The upper middle class is definitely more inbred but that's to be expected when it's such a limited number of people.

@coldcallerbaiter it certainly didn't feel like that when we lived in Denmark. I don't think that many people give a monkeys about growth on paper, if they can access good services, their streets feel cared for, they can see crime is being acted on, they have decent jobs, their kids can afford homes , for many people it's about 'the feels' - otherwise you get the situation I heard 3 young Indian lads on the bus to the Uni I heard the other day saying 'my dad says, it doesn't matter about the service, everything is all about the margin, that's all that matters' - it's like when M&S one year announced a fall and they had only made something like 600 million profit and hence where talking about cuts and strategy- that's 600 million after everything paid!!!!! It's still profit. I honestly think PLCs have a lot to answer for- have caused extreme short term thinking in perfectly viable businesses. Also the ability of one company to buy another and load that company with debt for cost of buying- and hence push them into unprofitability- all whilst new people taking out hefty salaries and dividends- if I was Labour I would be re looking at many business practices that aren't allowed elsewhere- it just attracts spivs to the game who are often actually poor businessmen .

The basic issue is we have not enough paying in and too many taking out. many low paying jobs, not enough investment in better paying work, ridiculously high private rents caused by not enough social housing of a decent quality - give people some choices though and I'm not sure as many would buy poorly built rabbit hutches in shitty areas- that doesn't suit the Tory type building companies.

@Lagoony I think many people who don't value education certainly are not deprived materially or from deprived areas. Some are yes, as it's hardly a priority when you are wondering if you can feed the gas meter-- but plenty who don't place a value on it have lots of foreign holidays, nice cards, gadgets, new houses- it is just they don't place a value on culture or history the same way as others do - they place more emphasis on what's in their wallet-.it's a very mixed picture.

Yes, most people who devalue education that I have known of were comfortable enough financially. It isn't unheard of for teenagers to be discouraged from study as immediate (even if low) wages are considered far more importance.
It's very much a cultural mindset, to me, a sort of 'them and us' or 'we don't do that'.. ...and it's nothing to do with cap doffing.
There are many poor immigrants who are insanely proactive about education.

Then we must ask why people don't value it. Because people fundamentally are the same no matter who they are, it's the culture around them that shapes them not something that inherently comes from them. Could it be that they don't value culture because the culture doesn't serve them at all? Maybe if their hard work actually reaped rewards they'd be inclined to value anything beyond themselves.

Absolutely

A lot of kids aren't reading now.

More interested in tik tok

It is a shame

That's all well and good if you are able bodied and can drive, or live somewhere with decent public transport. Online shopping can be a godsend for people in areas with poor transport links, or who aren't physically able to wander round shops. Pedestrianised town centres aren't great for the less able, and out-of-town shopping has a lot to answer for, too.

The upper middle class is definitely more inbred but that's to be expected when it's such a limited number of people.

Lagoony can you give some concrete examples of the upper middles classes being inbred? What are the characteristics of this condition?
Can you name some families who suffer from it?

Probably more interested in tiktok because their parents are working 5 billion hours per week and they see each other so little they couldn't pick each other out of a police lineup. Oh also the fact there are virtually no places for them to socialise that don't require spending load of money. Our country is a true shithole for young people.

I agree