To feel so sad about what happened to our town?

[AbstractThought]

I wasn't born here, DH was, and I have seen it discussed on MN in the past. I am aware that many towns across the UK are in a similar situation, so this probably isn't anything special, but since most people talk about shop closures I wanted to look at it from a different angle.

In the past decade we have a ton more issues in the town than previously, often relating to homelessness and addiction, and the town centre, what's left of it, has become completely over run by these problems with groups of people fighting and street drinking. A lot of these people are in extreme difficulty, whether mental health related and/or drug issues. Crime shot through the roof, and even about 8 streets away from this it spills outwards to us in what was once a fairly quiet place to live.
We now have a constant stream of siren noise, day and night, helicopters are daily and whilst we personally haven't felt in any actual danger there is a horrible sense of decay and hopelessness. Just nipping to the closest supermarket is depressing, there are a lot of neglected animals and people having meltdowns in the streets.

It is how it changed so quickly though. I can't get my head around where it all started or why. I am aware of the contribution of politics, covid, all of that stuff, but it seems so incredibly extreme. The siren noise is the worst, it is piercing and never seems to end. This also seemed to explode around the same time as the area went downhill. Probably a mix of police and emergency vehicles. It is difficult to work or relax at home and if you are a light sleeper it can have an impact there too.

What I am wondering is if this is commonplace now, in what was once a thriving town? It is the sheer amount of troubled people which seems to have escalated the most, and I can't get my head around how this has evolved, in such a short space of time. It is like they weren't here, then suddenly appeared, it is difficult to describe it. Obviously the council can't do a great deal to help and I have no idea what the answer is. The most upsetting thing is that a lot of these people are so messed up that they can barely talk in a way that is decipherable. This includes children, and there is a growing amount of people who have barely any teeth. This is a fucking severe problem and I have no idea what will help it. We have mucked in with a few local charities but it barely scratches the surface in my opinion.
We are moving due to work relocation soon, so whilst it may not be 'our' problem after we have gone, this isn't the point. I am just so sorry that it has come to this, in likely even more places than just here. WTF happened??

@MistressoftheDarkSide Tim Berners-Lee has talked about how the Internet can be policed a great deal more than it is.

If my memory serves me well, he talked about it in the context of CSA, amongst other things.

So yes, there are absolutely certain things that some countries cannot be bothered to deal with.

PP saying that drugs aren’t mentioned enough on this thread…I agree.

I was on this thread earlier on, but I felt like I was talking about drugs too much and others don’t seem to have seen so much of it.

It’s been really interesting to see the recent posts here - on MN in general - as if drug abuse is new. I’ve certainly always lived in places where it was quite prevalent. I still think there is a massive difference in perception between people who mostly drive from A to B and people who are using public transport. The same town can seem like a completely different place.

Maybe it’s good if we have a new cohort of people who are horrified.

Maybe that will be useful.

I now find myself thinking about the policies in other countries and how they might be better.

I never thought I’d be saying that but here we are 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think the current state of things globally is all gearing up to get worse, so citizens welcome totalitarianism and more digital monitoring. But some of us have been saying this since 2020, and you know what happened to us on here.

I am starting to wonder if the general malaise that seems to be affecting people is partly due to many of them realising how many from 2020 were correct.

But most people don’t want to turn round and apologise for calling you a conspiracy theorist.

cue my mother and sister wringing their hands re closing banks and the disappearing of cash. Of course in 2020 they thought I was completely mad.

@EmmaEmerald

Hello lovely.

I agree with everything you say.

The unwillingness of some to discuss these issues because of the fear of being labelled a conspiracy theorist or paranoid has also been built into the current situation by design IMHO. It's never the system at fault, it's our negative mindset etc.

The deletion of the State of Fear threads during Covid was a prime example. Yes, there were a few "lizard/Satanist/Chemtrail" posters, but there was also alot of other pertinent stuff.

People still think that the WEF is a harmless think tank, yet they boast openly about infiltrating - their word not mine - every government to influence policy "for our own good".

CDBC is a goal being actively pursued by Rishi, in part because his family connections have fingers in the technological pies which will profit most by its implementation. If cash is completely phased out, we will be controlled via our bank accounts. This argument is always dressed up in terms of combating criminality, but in real terms it overlooks the fact that in the event of technological breakdowns, like those recently affecting a number of supermarkets etc, not being able to use cash will upset cash flow and any semblance of the economy.

The truckers protest is a shining example of punishing political dissidents by confiscating cash.

Surveillance capitalism is a real thing. China's social credit system is admired by other governments. Not many people have heard of it, and those that have are confident it would never fly in this country. Well, a cashless society is the first step.

Honestly I appreciate how ludicrous this all sounds, but then, so did lockdown. So did the encouragement to grass up your neighbours if you thought they were breaking rules that were often badly framed and communicated when we were gripped by the fear of Covid. So did the idea of mandatory vaccinations - which if course didn't come to pass wholesale, but it was for some on pain of losing their jobs.

I fully expect someone to report this post or this thread like the State of Fear threads for "not being in the spirit of the site".

But if we can't discuss fears based on information or indeed misinformation and get some idea of WTAF is going on in the world, we're just essentially mushrooms if you know what I mean.

Anyway, nice to see you here x and sending love and solidarity.

Or the Swedish minister for telecoms who resigned - because she forgot to renew her TV licence iirc? Or some such trifling offence.

@MistressoftheDarkSide @EmmaEmerald

Agree with you both.

@MistressoftheDarkSide I really hope that posters will look deeper into the points you made about drugs, particularly with regards to MK Ultra. There's always a level of social experimentation that goes on. And I'm always surprised how many people don't know it. Here is one example.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience

another poster has talked about heroin being easily available after the Brixton and Toxteth riots. That is news to me, but I can see the point.

@AbstractThought you said you've not heard of managed decline. This is where it's really handy to have physical textbooks. If you look it up online, you will mostly only find the example of Liverpool I think. But there are many things that have happened throughout history where managed decline is the preferred option. It will usually be where governments want to bring in something else, but they think it won't be well received unless people are desperate for change.

I also noticed a previous poster saying that France values its farmers in a way that we don't. I haven't been to France recently, but I do not think this is the case. European farmers are suffering the same problems as UK farmers and they are all protesting as well. Is that not reported in MSM? I'm guessing not.
Ultimately I don't think any western governments really want for small farmers to stay in business.

I dare say there will be a select few who will provide really really prime products for the extremely wealthy. But they certainly don't want a collection of farmers with smaller farms being paid fairly for their goods.

I don't know what goes on in non-western countries about this sort of thing. It's probably no different.

I mentioned up thread about homeless people being more likely to die young. I guess that most governments would rather it went that way than try to make any interventions.

I'm not saying that intervention is easy.

I'm not saying that everyone wants to engage with interventions.

But it is very naive to think that governments will act in the best interest of the population as a whole.

The Tuskeegee experiment is another example. I think people want to believe that human nature improves over time and they like to say "oh this could never happen now". But history repeats itself over and over again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

But they certainly don't want a collection of farmers with smaller farms being paid fairly for their goods.

I don't know what goes on in non-western countries about this sort of thing. It's probably no different.

The farmers in India were protesting en masse in 2020-21 about the governments attempt to ensure huge corporations would control the prices paid to farmers. The farmers succeeded, for now.

I completely agree with this.

There has been discussion about the loss of Christianity being a major factor - however, America still has a pretty deeply embedded and strict Christian culture and this doesn't seem to have stopped the rot.

I think the rot started to set in when communities began to pit against each other, when individualism became the English equivalent of the American dream.
Communities have been systematically and purposefully eroded.
Heck - I even thought the no-smoking ban and the 'cheap supermarket alcohol' switch was more about dispersing communities. Public houses used to be huge, strong centres of community - so they had to go.
We all know who was responsible for starting the ball rolling on individualism in this country. They purposefully broke our communities so that we were easier to control. A community that doesn't talk to each other cannot form any kind of resistance any erosion of their human rights, living standards, war - nothing.
When people feel powerless they see no way out of their situation and become hopeless. Hopelessness fuels all kinds of self harming and antisocial behaviours.

After watching the Ch4 report on Marseille last night - I don't think we're alone in this by any stretch
https://www.channel4.com/news/how-drug-gangs-operate-in-europes-most-dangerous-city

Marseille has been a shit hole for years. There are places in the UK that have always been run down.
The difference in the UK is that places that were fine until 10 years ago are now looking terrible.

Yes, but it's not the last 10 years! There are places that were fine 30 years ago that became run down grot spots 20 years ago, and some that were fine 20 years ago that became grot spots 10 years ago. It's been happening ever since the 70s. Pit towns then industrial towns, dock towns, shipbuilding towns, railway towns, seaside towns, etc - right throughout the 80s, 90s and 00s. It's only now that it's starting to affect the previously "unaffected" places that we're getting more awareness of the problems. People in more affluent places just shrugged at the state and downward spiral of old mill towns and run down seaside resorts but now it's getting closer to them, they're starting to show an interest!

In the words of Monty
'shat on by tories, shovelled up by labour'

and so the cycle continues.

I notice you're near Nottingham but your first post could easily be about sunny Croydon

In the words of Monty
'shat on by tories, shovelled up by labour'

Sorry, I don’t understand’shovelled up by labour’. Does that mean Labour improved things or carried on the same?

. . an attempt to improve things I believe @Barbadossunset

Tangy thank you for answering my question.

My YouTube algorithms suggest the magical interwebz know I'm on this thread, as without having done any relevant searches, I am watching a suggested video called:

The Evil Decline of Britain's Dystopian Estates.

The channel is "Jimmy the Giant".

It's interesting if anyone has 30 minutes to spare and definitely resonant with this thread......

@EmmaEmerald @MistressoftheDarkSide Just seen a blast from the past when someone on Twitter shared a screenshot of an old TV guide.

from 1988 i watched it at the time.

https://myrarefilms.co.uk/product/menace-unseen-1988/

@MistressoftheDarkSide Thank you, that was really really interesting and very well balanced. I really appreciate the fact that he didn’t politicise it.

I’m not familiar with his work, but I hope it gets wider audiences.

He presented what could be a dry topic with a lot of humour too. I think @AbstractThought might find it interesting too.

@JenniferBooth not heard of that but interesting to see the late great John Sessions listed there.

@EmmaEmerald

Oh I am glad you found it and appreciated it 😊

Yes, I liked his style as well, observational yet delivered as you say with some humour.

I haven't managed to watch the one mentioned by @JenniferBooth but it's on my list.

Been jumping around several threads about PIP, assisted dying etc etc and it may be just the way my brain is wired but they and this one have so many crossover points with the current zeitgeist I'm seeing a bigger and bigger picture. Dunno where it's all going or what to even do with all the information and opinion, but I feel as if somethings brewing .....

Anyhow, have a good evening lovely x

but I feel as if somethings brewing .....

Mistress what do you think might be brewing?

@MistressoftheDarkSide It certainly fits in with managed decline. There is no plan because that is the plan. Run services down until people are grateful for any services at all. Destroy the middle class because that then increases the gap between rich and poor.

That’s governments of all flavours worldwide IMHO.

@Barbadossunset

Well, from my own perspective, as I'm in a position not of my choosing, when I've sorted out my current difficulties I may channel my transferable skills into advocacy or activism to help fight "the man" and injustice.

On a wider scale I feel I may not be alone. I suspect we may see some civil unrest if everything continues to decline at the pace we're currently observing, especially if the Tories get in again.

I think you're spot on. Destabilise society to the point that anything offered which offers some sense of security will be gratefully received, but history tells us that the attached strings may be rather unpalatable and extreme. I don't think this is an unrealistic fear.

Think. We are all hastening the decline of the high street and our town centres when we buy almost everything through Amazon (who don't even pay UK tax...) or online rather than buying locally or in physical shops. Use it or lose it folks.

Councils like mine, are making it harder and harder to shop locally, stupid lane closures to increase traffic congestion to encourage people to use the buses, alongside parking charges widening out to include areas where previously there were none, so walking in is now no longer possible.

The council is even now going to put in high charges for those that park in order to use an athletics track... apparently done to "control numbers using the facility"
So sport is now the preserve of people who can afford to pay the charges :(

My partner would use a local garden centre to buy chainsaw chains and strimmer line, gets it from Amazon now, car parking charges introduced.

People use Amazon etc because there is little alternative.

Just spent 3 weeks in France, car parking anywhere is either free or next to nothing, including some very popular historic château's..... High streets were bustling.