To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

not everyone can afford to go part time in their 60s

teachers had to carry everything they needed between rooms several times a day

It was this that was the cause of all my problems. Carrying heavy things at high speed causes back problems. It does not instigate flexibility or fitness

I agree, most people are not meant to be working full time at 60-67.

I work for the public sector and people are seriously overworked, many are signed off sick long term and I do wonder the proportion of public sector workers contributing to this.

My mum was slim, cooked from scratch every day, walked everywhere (we had no car), no junk food, often home grown and very active. Seriously high blood pressure, embolism after giving birth to me. She was dead at 57. What’s your point? You want congratulations ?

1. What you think is irrelevant, the statistics show that over half of people who are long term sick are over 50.
2. How offensive to equate being seriously unwell with laziness. How do you think that makes people feel? I’m fit and well over 50 but have some empathy.

In my current job I've really had my eyes opened into how many people are still paying hefty mortgages well into their sixties and often their seventies too ! I guess a lot of people divorce and have to remortgage or they get into difficulty with a business etc and remortgage. One of my dc's friend lost their dad in his sixties recently and family were shocked to find family home still had a huge mortgage, either re-mortgaged to pay off a divorce settlement or keep family business going. House prices are so high at the moment that people are getting on the ladder later and taking out longer mortgages.

I have another four years to go until 60. I'm really struggling to work full time even in a sedentary job after working 35 years in the NHS which has taken it's toll on my physical and mental health. I'm struggling with back pain, joint pain etc, so many years of lifting before better equipment was available. Fortunately I have an NHS pension I can take at 60 which will allow me a very basic amount to live on with a very frugal living. I consider this a bit of compensation for how health work has wrecked my health !

In July 2022 it was estimated that £570 billion is held by UK residents in tax havens.

If that money was taxed fairly rather than being allowed to be hidden away from circulation and the public purse, it could pay for a lot of physical and mental healthcare, sickness benefits and state pensions.

not everyone can afford to go part time in their 60s

Its strange though because in theory, your costs should reduce as children grow up and leave home. A big chunk of people will pay off a mortgage and have no rent to pay.

Of course there will be some lower income people but there should be provision via the benefits system - in the same way people with young children are required to work fewer hours, the same should be true for people over 60 to be eligible for benefit support.

I don’t think the younger generation are more lazy.

But seriously, what have they got to aim for? Cant afford a house. Shit wages. I’d be lazy in that situation.

I think a lot of people want to carry on living in a bigger home after children leave but this is perhaps another area where people can reduce their income needs in their 60s - downsizing, particularly if renting. A one bed flat will cost a lot less to rent than a three or four ned house.

One of the key advisors on the pension reforms retired before the age of 60. Forget his name, but the hypocrisy was not lost on me.

@beAsensible1 state pension is the same for everyone as long as you have 35 years full NI contributions. Certain benefits have the NI contribution paid for the person claiming the benefit. So as long as you have those 35 years stamps you get to currently enjoy 11,502 state pension per annum. Very few people are net contributors.

I don’t think the younger generation are more lazy. But seriously, what have they got to aim for? Cant afford a house. Shit wages. I’d be lazy in that situation.

This though. So true. Social contract of work = reward is so broken.

If you start rich you stay rich, the only people who rake it in are those who Own the company. Everyone else is fucked.

Yes very much agree with this.
We can't go on living like this; people are suffering, the environment is suffering yet all politicians care about is profits for companies who sub them to keep them in power.

I disagree. Very many benefit claimants are tax payers. UC is the first that comes to mind, but carers allowance and Employment and Support Allowance are taxable, as are quite a few others. If you have any other source of income it’s easy to find yourself eligible to pay tax. And new state pension has increased to just under £12000pa, so any private pension or other income is going to take people into the tax bracket.

I'm going to be teaching until I'm 68, according to when I can draw my pension. Not one of my family members in my parents' generation worked past 60. They had all managed to pay their mortgages off at 50, on effectively minimum wage jobs.

I'll still be paying mine well into my 50s and hoping I don't join the great scrap heap of older teachers, so I can afford it. The job is knackering.

As for sickness, it tends to be the younger ones who go off with anxiety or stress. Maybe it is generational; I was brought up with the custard fear of my dad losing his job and us losing the house. You clung on to that job with all you had, so going off sick would be dangerous.

Well I think it's pretty well established that you need an income over 50k to actually contribute rather than be a net taker in terms of tax.

I really feel it's survival of the fittest the way nature intended . I think humans are a very arrogant species to feel it's acceptable to contribute nothing but expect others to pay for them . Too many babies born to parents who can't look after themselves never mind raise well balanced respectful children . Too many people ' saved ' by the NHS to lead lives of pain and suffering whereas nature would be allowed to take its course . Too many parents passing on hereditary health problems , be it mental or physical.
Because society never says no and almost worships at the alter of the ' vulnerable' we have come to a place where there is no money and every service is stretched because we can't cope .

Ridiculous. It’s gone up just 2 years and will eventually go up 3. 65 has been retirement age for men forever so your dad retired early. And loads of the people off sick are young, some very young. So no, it’s not that.

I think it’s due more to people not getting the treatment they need on the NHS.

You are lucky in that you were brought up in that environment with clean air, good housing no doubt and plentiful food so you could concentrate on your career.

Many didn't and had to grow up in mining towns, or smog filled over crowded cities with a lack of decent food.

Yes. I read an article last week proposing that retirement age should be reduced but people would need to take a reduced pension - a bit like a DB pension - so you'd get the same amount of money but take it over a longer period of time. This sounds fair and acceptable to me and far better than having people on long term sick waiting for their pension.

I haven’t ready the whole thread but I absolutely agree with you, OP.
The increase of retirement age not only put pressure on these people but also additional pressure on their children. 15 years at DD’s primary there were quite a lot of fit and healthy GPs collecting children. I guess there will be much less nowadays therefore the pressure on parents (30-40 y.o) is increasing and they can’t get any extra help for their problems. Plus economic difficulties and unavailability of medical help. All these contribute.

The problem is that only poor and lower middle class in this position. People like Rishi Sunak and others can easily get medical, domestic help, don’t need to do difficult choices of cutting food or heating or after school clubs, don’t struggle with finding accommodation for renting.

This! I think it's unrealistic for people to expect to stay in the same line of work and then retire.

People with physically demanding jobs need to have a "plan B" for when it gets too much for them. People like firemen usually "retire" early and do something else, even though they have an excellent pension, as they know they'll be retiring early, so plan to do something else. Our neighbour retired at what used to be ADO (assistant divisional officer) rank and then spent another 15 years working in a very highly paid job for the nuclear fuel authority with a company Mercedes car!

We have a couple of "tame" tradesmen, one an electrician and the other a roofer, who were sole traders, always worked on their own, who both took on apprentices a few years ago when they were mid 50s - now those apprentices are in line to take over the businesses, the older blokes, now in their 60s are basically just doing supervision and administration - they come to do the quotes, come to "supervise" the apprentices (who are now experienced/qualified themselves) but it's the apprentices who do the work, the climbing on the roof, the crawling under the floorboards, etc.

Perhaps we need to start looking at adult education and skills training and encouraging people to move into teaching as they get older, i.e. make it worthwhile for older plumbers, brickies, etc to teach at colleges etc. Same with other more "manual" occupations, maybe such as nurses, teachers, etc - create new pathways/routes into less physically demanding roles where their skills and experience can be useful and passed on. Doesn't help that adult education and manual skills teaching has been decimated for the last 25 years since Blairs 50% aim for university, but it can be reversed and we can massively ramp up skills training for all ages again to help deal with the issue of people being less able to do their same work as retirement looms.