To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

I’m 59. I’m the only one in an office of 15 that does any kind of cardio and weight exercise. Most are over weight and can’t even be bothered to go for a walk. Use it or lose it.

That's lovely but fibromyalgia is a descriptor more than a diagnosis. And it can be utterly debilitating for some people. And may well be a misdiagnosis. (I am sure I could have been misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia if the neurological cause hadn't been spotted)

And usually people are humble enough to realise that even with the same diagnosis there can be huge variations on what is possible that have nothing to do with will power. With my condition, myasthenia , (and I expect it is hugely under diagnosed as new tests are only just becoming available) if we do too much we can end up in ITU on a ventilator, so how ever much I would love.to be determined and keep going at 100mph know that I have to slow down and build huge chunks of rest into my life.

having a workplace pension or private one means you don’t have the same ?

no one who works would have the same pension as someone who has never worked.

That makes no sense ?

When this first came in, I knew it was nonsense; neither the mind or the body are built to cope with working at 65 as if you were 45. I used my intelligence (where did I put that?) , analytical skill and imagination in my job: none of these are functioning at the same level now.

Both DH and I Started to observe at 60 that our energy levels and physical abilities decreased sharply. He would say that he used to be able to mow the (large) lawn in a day, now it takes two or even three goes.

When the OAP was introduced , the calculation was based on the expectation of paying for eighteen months after retirement on average. Twenty years is probably a better estimate now, at least for the current cohort. Of course the elephant in the room is that many previously fatal conditions , or even those that just made independent life impossible , are now ‘ put right’, but not to the extent that people are restored to full functionality. So they must be supported, and that is expensive. Many children whose birth conditions would have led to infant mortality are now able to survive, but not to support themselves totally, let alone produce a surplus.

There is no magic money tree that an evil government is refusing to shake, just increasing demands on static resources.

People over 55 may stop working and be "economically inactive", but that doesn't mean they are all claiming benefits. I know plenty who are living off their personal pensions and/or investments.
There are also way too many younger people claiming sickness benefits, for all the reasons we know, and hopefully that will be addressed in future years.

They need to change the definition of "work" employers increasingly expect too much

Use Udemy or YouTube, do an hour a day and you’ll have it in a month.

it doesn’t need to be a big slog. Just apply the basics, create a spreadsheet for something at home and use it for practice.

I find it hard to read such arrogant posts. You have been lucky ... it is not so for everyone. Maybe use some of the energy you expend in patting yourself on the back to spare a thought for those less fortunate.

To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age

Of course it is, but Sunak and his cronies would rather come up with any pie-in-the-sky theory than admit it.

If the NHS and associated support along with support to transition people from manual work to something less physically demanding there should be no reason people can't keep working 67-68.

We don't have that infrastructure at the moment though, which is a real problem as we do need to increase the age of retirement to keep it affordable.

I also think the government isn’t preparing enough.
There is a huge spike coming in terms of the long term costs and provisions for ND children and adults. What is being done, no specialist schools, no extra residential provisions, no parenting plans.

it’s all reactive.

Failure to fund MH provisions means more signing off, because wait time on therapies is insane and SSRIs are a sticking plaster.

and so much is caused by the constant lack.

Agree OP, I actually posted that on another thread! I can’t imagine teaching at 68 but Teachers Pension is now attached to state pension age so won’t be able to take early retirement. The other option is to move careers - how easy is that to do in your 50s? That leaves claiming benefits.

I had to admit defeat with my part time warehouse job at 65 got a fit note until retirement at 66 I could no longer push around the 150 kg cages . I’ve had back pain ever since and should have finished before, but I enjoyed it so kept going for too long.

Article on BBC website suggests a third wih chronic pain, a third with diabetes, a third with mental health problems. Obviously a broad brush. Points to doubling waiting lists for treatment especially to cope with chronic pain. Links to interesting article on younger people trying to cope with serious chronic pain and not getting proper treatment. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68849843

Diet and lifestyle. Basically eating bad food and drinking catches up with you. The truth is being overweight is the reason people aren't healthy.

I was in hospital recently and there were a lot of diabetic overweight people. It really does matter how healthy you are.

You are right in that older workers do get more health issues.

On the other hand the increase of the number of economically inactive people and the ones off sick pushes up the retirement ages for those who are working, because someone has to work.

It's a vicious circle.

Well having just read the bbc? Article they say there are 3 root causes

Chronic pain ( untreated arthritis and the like ) age related and waiting list related so will be worse for older

Diabetes - weight related , more common over 40 ( well before retirement) but growing in the younger population

And mental health - worst in the youngest workers and attributed to the environment of their life - austerity , financial crash , brexit and covid , poor housing and work

So not pension age but poor health much if that related to deprecation and stress

@bombastix It helps to live a healthy lifestyle, but as someone else has said on this thread, luck has a big part to play in your health too. Many people, myself included, have chronic health conditions that are genetic, or just crap luck. A healthy lifestyle may help, but it's never going to cure us. My brother had cancer at 16 which has left him with lifelong health issues. What could he have done to prevent that?

I think a lot of the discourse around benefits ignores the fact that PIP is paid to a lot of people who are in work, and it helps keep people in work by offsetting some of the higher costs associated with being ill and disabled.

Another big issue is with people who have a fluctuating condition or a disability which means they can and are willing to work, but need loads of time off for hospital appointments and frequent sick leave when it flares up. What employer is going to be understanding about that? There is a big gulf in what the government expect people do do and what employers are willing to accept. So in that case, keeping a job becomes very difficult and people are forced to rely on the paltry benefits we provide. The effects of covid are making this worse.

The UN has singled out the UK for the lack of dignity and poverty caused by its disability benefits system; that should be a serious red flag.

I don't disagree; genetically we do not all have the same luck.

I do think people in the UK are naive on their health. A lot of people with chronic problems would be uninsurable. I listened a conversation with several people who were all diabetic, very overweight and needing emergency treatment. They were scathing about the NHS and how they should go private.

They were literally mad. Their expectations were that they would be looked after by private medicine in the same way as socialised medicine.

Unless we do something about our medical systems and overall health people like these are going to die early and in circumstances which would shame a dog,

They all intended to vote Conservative.

I find it hard to read such arrogant posts. You have been lucky ... it is not so for everyone. Maybe use some of the energy you expend in patting yourself on the back to spare a thought for those less fortunate
And I find it hard to read such post that think it's all down to luck.

Staying healthy is very hard work. It's an investment.

The vast majority of disabilities in the over 60 is due to lifestyle. Knees and hip replacements mainly cause that long term obesity. COPD due to smoking and lack of activity. Heart problems almost all down to poor lifestyle as is diabetes. Won't even mention the impact of long term alcohol.

People don't look after themselves when young, think all the above won't affect them and then, when it finally catch up with them, think it's all down to bad luck.

It's not arrogance to point out that looking after yourself when young means that you will likely live longer disability free, it's a fact.

I'm sure someone will come along and say, well, I'm 60 and still loving work and my career is on the rise, but speaking for myself I find that the nature of work has changed beyond all recognition since I started work in the 1980s.

As an older person the concept of enjoying working drifts further away from you every year. Work now is a minefield of wellness training, target setting, restrictions, appraisals, new concepts all the time that are a flash in the pan to show off some new manager's 'innovative ideas', presenteeism, zero hours, always being contactable.....until someone puts in a 'you don't have to answer this mail outside of work hours' rule.

Wages being worth less than a decade ago, promotion without incentive, not being able to afford rent or a house even if you work like a demon.

Couple in the loneliness of working from home, poor public transport if you're commuting and not being able to get a GP/hospital appointment if you're sick, it's a wonder any bugger manages to be arsed with work.

Honestly, it's exhausting. I gave up work early (very lucky enough to have a small private pension) because I just could not stand all the bullshit any more.

I took a volunteering job and gave that up because all the work bullshit was being applied even to volunteering).

Not universally, but a lot of work used to be set hours, unions, respect, security, promotions, meaningful pay increase and some level of certainty. It's bloody draining now. Work now is so unappealing. No wonder people are finding ways out - especially older people or young people who have had the Covid years to see that work isn't all.

Maybe I'm just an old duffer, but that's how it seems to me.

This is such crap. I was born in 63, so 13 years later.

I had a normal ‘healthy’ 60’s and 70’s childhood. Full of those ‘nuggets’ such as playing outside and walking to school.

All through my 20s, 30s, and early 40’s. I was slim fit and healthy. Then in my late 40’s/early 50’s the 3 car accidents I’d had came back to haunt me ( none of them my fault)

The stress and physicality of teaching for 25 years, hefting equipment, chasing teens destroyed my physical and mental health. I got ill health retirement at 58.

You got lucky. No one was teaching in their 60’s. It’s too physically demanding.

Yes I do agree that mostly it is use it or lose it. That is your mind and body.

It does catch up with you. Eat badly for 30 years and you will suffer the effects. Unlike smoking there are no real warnings. Probably in ten years diet and what we eat will be related explicitly to dementia. All these things about good diet are noticeable because they are put forward by people who have zero financial interest. The people who tell you you can eat badly and be okay are those with a financial incentive.

This. My SIL got breast cancer despite being very fit and sporty and eating a healthy diet with loads of allotment grown fruit and veg. She’s fine now fortunately.

My mother ate a healthy diet all her life. She still got dementia. You sound victim blaming.