To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

No. You sound like you had something difficult happen in your family. Diet is very important for overall health, but it isn't bulletproof

The whole thing is another Tory dog-whistle to those who blame anyone but themselves and their voting choices for the poor life they’re living. It’s either ‘the boat people’ or ‘scroungers’ or ‘on the sick’. No doubt IF they were able to implement it, it would be staffed by the same delightful people who do PIP assessments and class the fact that you’re there as proof that. You don’t have any struggles.

You got lucky. No one was teaching in their 60’s. It’s too physically demanding

Teaching into the 60s was commonplace in my Victorian school when I arrived in the mid-2000s, and I taught until 67. I actually think some of its activity helped: no-one had assigned classrooms as is common in the UK, teachers had to carry everything they needed between rooms several times a day.

To be fair, the system at the time did not have the corrosive and pointless paperwork of the UK system, but they're getting there.

I don't agree. I think there are more people off sick in their 20s, 30s, 40s. I'm in my late 30s and feel like the younger generation are much lazier than older colleagues

Plus I think a lot of long term sickness is obesity and lifestyle related now

It is of course wise to try and eat sensibly and not smoke - this will increase your chances of not getting ill in later life - no-one is disputing that.

But poor lifestyles are more complicated than they seem - it is well known that more deprived neighborhoods have poorer health, often related to lifestyle. So, what do we do? - assume that these people are not the full shilling and don't have the sense to make healthier lifestyle choices? Does this help at all? I don't think so.

We need to look at WHY. What is it about these deprived areas that leads to these health deficits? And what can we do about this? Abolishing Sure Start, cutting NHS funding, not funding preventive measures, presiding of a collapsing education system - these all contribute.

But we have a government that cannot think long term and prefers to sit in judgement on those less fortunate in our society.

It is easy to sit back and pronounce on what others are doing wrong; far more difficult is to create the conditions for citizens to thrive.

I work in insurance. The highest claims on Income Protection is muscular skeletal, then mental health, then cancer. Average claim period is now 7.5 years. Youngest claimant 20, oldest 69.

No. YABU.

When the State pension was established, the expectancy was that it would, generally speaking, be paid for 15 years.

Given the increase in life expectancy (even allowing for a recent slight fallback), the State retirement age to keep the 15year term should be 71 or even 72.

No Government has the courage to make the change so the cost of State pensions is rising annually

Yes it is complicated. It's not about being the full shilling in most cases but it's whether you can afford to think ahead when your circumstances are very tough in the present.

There is always someone who says "but you can eat lentils and make a cheap curry" but mostly that seems like pretty poor stuff and people like to feel good.

Cf the meal deal which is really pretty crappy but honestly is something some people look forward to. It's not healthy, but it does a lot else.

That doesn't account for it completely. The retirement age was 65 and is now 67 so it's only two years more.

I think most manual workers switch to less physical ( but less well paid) jobs once they get to 60 if they can. I'm in my 60s and still working full time. It isn't causing me an issue yet.

I think long waiting lists for elective surgery are more likely to contribute. Plus increases in obesity.

Interesting…
Im mid 50s and work in a manual job. I already struggle! I can’t see me lasting to 60 let alone 67. No one here has ever worked past 62, even the relatively fit & healthy people.

Yes I agree. I work as a benefits advisor assisting people over 50 and this is the type of people we assist a lot, in fact the bulk of our clients. They hit 60 ish one can't work any longer in a physical job and they go onto benefits unless they can manage on private pensions but having done often sporadic or manual jobs they often don't have good private pensions. It's surprising how many of these people have no or very poor digital skills so not easy to get any other type of work. I ask them if they would be able to set up a UC claim online and they say no. They then try to limp on until state pension age often on a very low income if they don't qualify for disability benefits, or they bury their heads in the sand not being able to pay the mortgage if they own their own house, then it reaches a crisis point.

This is why I have planned for and managed to get into a hybrid role where I can gradually move more into the less physically demanding role the older I get. There is no way I will manage full time frontline 999 work at 60+ years of age.

My Fil is 65 and df 67 and both computer illiterate. I find it baffling. I'd expect that more so in someone of 90, but my nan can use an iPad at 88! Do you find this more common among men than women?

It’s roughly 53%. So not the vast majority by any means, barely half. So YABU.

Why would you start a thread on guesswork without looking at the easily available statistics?

this has been researched to death!

I work with a lot of gen zs who take a lot of sick days. Some of them are chancers I think and do milk the medicalisation of feeling a bit rough, but others have been really hit by cost of living. It's pretty miserable to work long hours and still not be able to afford a place to live, your weekly shop, to socialise etc. cost of commuting also doesn't help as hybrid working can be incredibly lonely for young people new to the workplace who haven't got pre-covid networks to chat to. They just log on to calls, talk shop and then log off. It's a bit soul destroying.

well said
dh now has a chronic bad back
its really tough for manual workers/steel

but there arent really any benefits are there?
JSA for 6 months,
then what?

Yes the cost of state pensions is rising but is constantly pushing the state retirement age higher and higher the only solution?

How about means-testing the state pension instead? Lots of current and future recipients could manage to live ok without it.

I predict howls of "But I worked and paid my stamp all my life so the government owes me!"

I see how the principle of universal benefits is a good one, but actually in practice that principle is being constantly eroded for all benefits except the state pension. If we can't afford it as a nation perhaps we need to look at solutions currently considered unthinkable.

i was going to post something similar, i agree, the pension age has not changed radically, i have known it was 67 for quite a while.
then again i am not off sick.

I think for younger people, the cost of living crisis plus social media together mean the adult world of work is a huge disappointment vs their (very unrealistic rose tinted) expectations.

I also think a lot of people struggle to find the meaning in the types of work we do now. For the the vast majority of human existence our labour has been very obviously necessary. Producing food, clothing, shelter, tools, cooking equipment, caring for the more vulnerable. Making use of the natural environment to meet our needs. We see the output and it was clear it was needed.

Nowadays we stare at screens, produce marketing powerpoints, move numbers about on spreadsheets, send a billion emails.

For many of us, if we stopped tomorrow, the world would go on turning. Its so far removed from meeting any basic needs. Its depressing, its unfulfilling, and the corporate desire for ever higher productivity makes is feel stressed by the pointlessness of it all. Some people can manage this. Many cannot. I have a really well paid job of this nature ane as I age I'm struggling badly to engage/give a shit.

This. And I would add in particular the appalling state of mental health services.

If your mental health is bad, your physical health is likely to become bad too.

I agree, there's a complete culture shift towards people wanting a "lifestyle" job, flexible hours, no stress, etc., which isn't reality so means people do a lot more job-hopping and not really putting their all into it anymore. Partly social media selling a "lifestyle" where everyone loves their jobs, etc., which is completely unrealistic.

There was far more of a "grin and bear it" attitude when I started work in the early 80s. Full time was normal, as was stress etc. You didn't take sickies at the drop of a hat.

Things weren't great back then, in terms of working conditions etc., but like most things, I think we've gone far too far over the other way, i.e. the usual see-saw effect of going from one extreme to another. We need to find a way towards middle ground.

We do have tp change expectations though. Working into your 60s doesn't have to mean doing the same thing you did in your twenties/thirties.

It might mean accepting a less demanding/physical job, or working part time, gradually reducing to the point where you no longer work & just draw a pension.