To think part of the increase in long term sickness is the increase in retirement age?

[Lazykitten]

Thinking of the people I know who are long term economically inactive long term (I believe that counted as over 6 months) and nearly all I know who fall into that bracket are my parents and there friends. Dad was a factory sparky and mum was a cleaner. Dad stopped work at i think around 61, mum does part time caring now in her early 60s but really struggles and I can see her having to give it up soon.

Most of their friends had similar manual jobs and now in their mid 60s a lot are signed off sick waiting for pension. These are people who have had manual jobs since they were 15/16 and their bodies are knackered. They can't (and very little point) in retraining now for their last couple of years before they get the state pension.

I work in an office job so can feasibly see how I could work to my late 60s and beyond, but those who've done manual work for over 40 years have the wear and tear on their bodies that they simply can't. As well as other health problems & decreasing energy levels that come with ageing.

There's got to be a sizeable number of folk age 60-67 that fall in that bracket? And taking it further is it another stick to beat the working class with?

Yes healthy living helps, but it isn't a cast iron guarantee
Nothing in life is guaranteed. Everything is an investment you take the risks to invest in or not.

I'm in my 50s and I know that now is the time to really build my strength to give all my chances to remain strong as I become older.

So twice a week, I do a group class, and frankly, it's not pleasurable. It hurts. But that's the pain to take to stay strong.

I can't tell how many people have told me that I'm mad, why would O put myself through this, that they much prefer to go home and enjoy a glass of wine in front of the TV. I'm being made to be a martyr.

I guess most of them will be the one moaning when they can't walk more than 100m, can't bend down to pick up their grand kids, struggle to go up the stairs. They will be the ones telling me that I'm just lucky when I do all those things easily and more.

Yes, I might die of cancer before and they might live until a 100yo but the statistics are significantly in my favour, so I'm going with that.

My mum was slim, cooked from scratch every day, walked everywhere (we had no car), no junk food, often home grown and very active. Seriously high blood pressure, embolism after giving birth to me. She was dead at 57. What’s your point?
The point, your mum was unlikely and I'm sorry for that but every healthy person dying early, there are 100s if not 1000s who will make it healthily to their 80s and 90s.

There is a strong statistic link between healthy living and longevity.

I think the biggest factor is austerity and stripping back of the NHS resulting in massive waiting lists for everyone. Poverty is grinding and sickness inducing in itself.
We voted for this though, or we'll, Tory voters did, and we're a democracy so we get what we vote for.

Totally agree OP. People who have worked in physical jobs such as trades and nursing can’t be expected to work till 67, they inevitably have work related injuries due to the physical nature of their jobs. Office workers and WFH don’t suffer the same level of physical deterioration .

At that age they grew up not using computers or mobile phones . They didn't even have a remote control for the television.

Equalising the state pension age at 63-66, but requiring more years of NI contributions, say 40, instead of the current 35, would reduce the unfairness between those that left school at 16-18 and started full time work and those that had a gap year, 3-6 years in HE, then career breaks etc. It would crucially more closely align policy with behaviour.

A big issue is that for people like me, who have now 44-46 years full NI contributions and some years to wait until we can claim our state pension is that pension changes meant we lost years with our children when they were young. I decided to return to work following a short maternity leave on the understanding our pension age was 60, which it was at the time. It is now 67.

I think the way the government made changes to the pension age has sent a very unhelpful message to younger people that they can’t be trusted on this, which means many, including women who need to be more financially engaged, switch off and don’t review their finances and make proper plans - the very opposite of what is needed, both personally and as a nation.

My DM and stepdad both retired at 55/60 and 60 respectively.

DM was medically retired from teaching (she did job share at one point) with rheumatoid arthritis (not sure how that happened as nothing in the family) but a good pension and then developed glaucoma too. Stepdad retired as a civil servant. DM had paid off her mortgage by 40 or early 40s. Stepdad was paid badly as a civil servant and had to do other work outside his hours but got a good pension.

I paid off my own mortgage a year or two ago but partly because I had investments mature well, had savings which covered it and it made sense to do it then Covid also helped a lot as I saved a lot by WFH.

I did want to re-mortgage and get an extension or loft conversion but decided not to do so as didn't need it.

Both my best friends are working in jobs where one is now back in the office 5 days a week as of recently after WFH through covid, she's a stroke victim re-coverer. She's also a semi perm carer for her DM whom she lives with.

The other WFH a lot but is also back in the office 2-3 days a week and has visiting times she has to see her DM who's in a care home, either during the week or on a Friday/weekend. Both of them are early 50s, with health issues partly caused by weight gain but one has recently been diagnosed with an underactive thyroid.

From family friends/friends DC - a lot of younger people, do go off sick with anxiety and stress now, or WFH due to that. Which is great if they're allowed to do that, but if their company wants them in the office more, what are they supposed to do? Yes, they can apply for reasonable adjustments but their company doesn't have to grant them.

Whenever I've been sick when younger, I've almost always had to go or gone into the office, whether with depression, anxiety - both the latter at one stage were caused by drama caused by my wider family and also caused by one ex-DP/SO too.

I just had to get on with it, had maybe 2 days off at one point, and it was actually better for me being in the office, rather than being at home.

I have PTSD from my childhood, but haven't had therapy for this yet. I have had therapy in the past for e.g. workplace bullying.

As pp said, in the past you got on with it, as not having a job struck the fear of god into most of the older generation.

Perhaps we need to start looking at adult education and skills training and encouraging people to move into teaching as they get older

You have to be fucking joking. Teaching is horrendously physically demanding. It’s what drives older people out.
Everything is done at top speed. Endless lifting/carrying/bending/walking.

Teaching destroyed my knees and Achilles by 55.

Orthopaedic surgeon said he sees so many teachers.

We have just returned from a week long holiday in southern Europe where I indulged in a few sessions of people watching at our hotel. With one exception, all the females roughly over 55 were struggling with walking, either limping or walking very slowly. I’m very creaky myself, post menopause but I had no idea how common it is at a relatively young age.

This government says it wants to abolish NI. How much confidence does that give you in the state pension carrying on!!!

The point about preventative action is a good one. Obviously luck and genetics play a huge part in health, but good diet and physical exercise is so important. The NHS is great but terrible at helping with preventative action to avoid poor health.

I am 46 and Mr Monkey is 55, I simply do not recognise the picture often painted here of wide spread serious physical deterioration and exhaustion at our age - Mr Monkey just ran the Boston marathon this week in just under 3 hours, we walked over 60 miles in the subsequent holiday in New York and are both back at work tomorrow. We both work full time - him in a demanding retail role.

Now that may change but right now we ensure we eat well, exercise every day and take care of our health.

Neither did l until it happened to me.

And I’d say it ramps up at 55/56.

At your age l could walk miles.

Half a million under 35s. 44% increase in 4 years

How much of that is long covid, I wonder? I have seen a 50 year old in rude health just disappear before my with long covid. It is terrifying as a bystander to watch. No way can that man work at anything at all for the foreseeable. I also know of a now 17 year old who has bee in a wheelchair since contracting covid - lucky to be alive. I can't imagine these are isolated cases.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow Well indeed, hence my final paragraph. If you put in the effort to keep healthy you have a better fighting chance if illness or an accident happens.

That said, my dad is 76 and still farming and walking miles and miles a day. They build farmers tough!

I am 46 and Mr Monkey is 55, I simply do not recognise the picture often painted here of wide spread serious physical deterioration and exhaustion at our age - Mr Monkey just ran the Boston marathon this week in just under 3 hours, we walked over 60 miles in the subsequent holiday in New York and are both back at work tomorrow. We both work full time - him in a demanding retail role

Jesus wept. We're not all the same, are we?

I agree
But then there’s jobs such as mine as an architect.
I go on site these days and wonder how when in my 60s will I cope climbing scaffolding, or will I fall on uneven ground. Post menopausal I have noticed dizziness, what if I become dizzy walking past open liftshafts ( even protected).
Technically I’m an ‘office job’ but not all office jobs or wfh necessarily sit at a desk all day.
I do worry what the future holds as I really don’t want to end up sitting at a desk and leaving others to run the jobs on site.
Most people would love to carry on but with the retirement age now as it is it’s sad when older people see themselves sidelined and there responsibilities reduced.

Leaving aside things like working background, I think it just depends on aptitude like anything else. My MIL (mid-80s) is better with tech than my DH of 62 - neither of them has ever had an office job.

My parents (now in their 80s) were reasonably good with tech until their mental capacity started diminishing but both had worked in offices until the 1990s so had been used to computers.

@Workworkandmoreworknow Well no indeed which is why I said I know genetics and luck have a huge role to play.

But it is simply not true to say everyone gets ill or slows down massively in their forties and fifties. Most of our friendship group is that age and very active and healthy. That does not mean people in this group do not get ill or are to blame for it, but it astonishes me to see people talk on here like 50 is somehow a guarantee of physical decreptitude.

I don’t think anyone can doubt that the Tories have always had it in for the sick and disabled, and elements of Sunaks’ speech were rightly called out for the divisive and ableist language used - especially toward those with mental health conditions.

It’s interesting to note that few if any posters here have mentioned that he also announced a review of PIP - which is a benefit disabled people rely on to cope with the extra costs. PIP was introduced in 2013 under the Tories (specifically the coalition government) to replace DLA for those of working age - purely to drive down the cost of supporting disabled people. The assessment criteria were far harsher and thousands of severely disabled people lost their entitlement as a result - not because they were no longer disabled, but because, effectively the goalposts were moved and the assessment screened out quite high levels of disability. No money was saved because the assessments were unfair and weighted against the claimants, so disabled people were forced to go to expensive tribunals to get a fair decision.

At that time the Tory government prided itself that for the first time, mental health conditions qualified for disability benefits. Just over ten years later they’ve realised that this has ballooned the benefits bill and they’re trying to back track by saying that somehow all of these conditions can’t be genuine.

So what we have is another all out assault on disabled people. And make no mistake any cuts will fall to those who have the most severe disabilities because they are the ones who cost the most.

Sunak mooted removing regular cash payments to those with less severe conditions and replacing them with one off payments for aids and adaptations etc. That’s reasonable you might think, but how are they going to go about assessing who needs ongoing cash support and who doesn’t ? PIP was a badly designed system to start with. It took disability assessment out of the hands of doctors and put it into the hands of paid assessors who are also paid bonuses based on the number of assessments carried out. There is no plan to overhaul an already broken and unfair system, but instead to narrow the eligibility criteria yet again so that fewer people qualify - not that they are not disabled, but they are effectively screened out.

The plan as far as I can see is to rehash the existing system and build on it by taking responsibility for sick notes away from doctors altogether, to train work and health ‘experts’ to work alongside disability assessors, so that everything will come under the auspices of the DWP, who have an appalling track record in their treatment of disabled people. Fridays’ announcement has sent a message to disabled people in this country. This government is prepared to use tax payers money fork out billions supporting parents by paying up to 85% of their childcare costs so they can work. They’re prepared to pay out billions to landlords in extortionate rents on behalf of UC claimants. And they’re prepared to pay yet more billions of tax payers money footing the wage bills of employers who are more interested in paying handsome dividends to their shareholders and bonuses to their execs, than paying their employees a living wage. But if you’re disabled, you’re bottom of the pile and simply too expensive to support. Idealistic Tory crap. The sooner they’re voted out the better.

As pp said, in the past you got on with it, as not having a job struck the fear of god into most of the older generation

I agree. This was my mum and this is me. I don't have the luxury of falling apart as a single mum of 3 and a non-contributing ex. But I do think we should look after our mental health and to do so should not be seen as a sign of some kind of weakness.

I did put effort into keeping myself healthy……

Thats the point.

I didn’t just sit there eating donuts since age 25

I get frustrated on these threads. There are many people who, through no fault of their own, may become too sick to work at any age (genetic bad luck, physical accidents etc), regardless of aiming for a healthy lifestyle.

There are also many people who make poor lifestyle choices, don't look after themselves and subsequently develop health conditions that mean they can't work. This is, in theory, their responsibility, although the reality is more complex that this.

Both of these things can be, and are, true at the same time. An individual anecdote about one side or another doesn't make the other any less true!

You are mis understanding me. Of course healthy living does not prevent all illness or disabilty but there is an increasing amount of ill health that IS lifestyle related so it is good to try and give ourselves a fighting chance at a healthier old age.

I completely accept and understand that illness and disability can strike at any time. My mum was very physically fit and healthy - a farmer who exercised every day, pretty much only ate good home cooked and often home grown food, never smoked and drank moderately. She died from a brain tumour at 46. But my dad, who follows a similar lifesyle at 76 is still working and active, and pretty healthy (the only medical intervention he has had in his 76 years is a stent last year after mild angina left him more tired than usual).

Also. Whilst I’m upon my high horse. There are very very long waiting lists for some non life threatening but debilitating specialist care in the nhs. People waiting for operations etc who can’t work. So if Rishi maybe thought about sorting that out, people would be back to work quicker.

Its also hard having grown up expecting to retire at 60/65 then having the goal posts moved. I get that it’s necessary and only fair for women to work as long as men, but it’s still difficult to adjust to the different expectation.

I’m lucky in that I’m still aiming to retire at 60 with a private pension, but I do sympathise with those who no longer can. I’m late 50’s now and I’m nowhere near as mentally or physically agile as I was, even 5 years ago. And there are no health conditions to compound this further.
Of course I’m not speaking for everyone. There are outliers who would dispute this, but generally speaking life is far more stressful when older and dealing with mental and physical health decline than it is when younger. I have far more anxiety at work now and I couldn’t do my job if I had health conditions. As it is, I come home from work absolutely exhausted.