Don't be poor, disabled, sick or elderly . .

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/apr/19/rishi-sunak-sicknote-culture-welfare-reform-post-office-horizon-conservatives-labour-uk-politics-lastest-updates

So this is a big part of the next Tory strategy to get elected.

I hope the buggers don't get in

Really? I don’t know anyone that does this. 20 years ago yes but it’s much harder to be off work sick now and much harder to find jobs that pay cash in hand.

I agree that lots of people will still vote Tory and will agree with all this sh#t because it doesn’t effect them, lots of people are not disabled or elderly (yet) and seem to have a chip on their shoulder about having to work whilst others can claim benefits. I read it all the time, people calling other scroungers for being disabled 🙄, people moaning that they are paying taxes to pay people’s benefits. This will never change.

If Sunak (or any tory for that matter) told me that water is wet I'd want to take a dip in the sea to check that first.

On another note, I have some magic beans for sale, would you be interested in buying them?

I’ve read countless MN threads where “get your GP to sign you off sick with stress” is the stock answer to problems ranging from not getting on with colleagues, to a shift pattern which doesn’t work around childcare, to being about to be put on performance monitoring. I briefly worked for both the civil service and the NHS and “going on the sick” for weeks or months on end as a way of avoiding performance monitoring for underperforming colleagues or those with grievance investigations against them was rife. People were brazen about it. That’s true sicknote culture, and it’s a part of the overall worldview of why public services, in particular, are underperforming. Ignoring it and turning it into “the Tories just hate disabled people” is puerile.

I've read countless threads about people seeing ghosts.

Don't make 'em true.

I don't know anyone who is working cash in hand. Or if I do they keep it quiet as I have no idea.

Who dodges tax?

Yes, because, you know, that is how some variable conditions present. But you would know that if you suffered from it, but as you do not, and are obviously ignorant of such things, you pour scorn on such a suggestion. People should be mindful that life can change for any of us, in ways that we could not possibly invisage.

I hate this government. Hate them.

We have no nhs, no memtal
healyh services, shit wages, gig economy and poverty.

And they blame the citizens for scrounging.

If l was king they’d be first against the wall.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

I think what's really getting under my skin is the bit about who deserves help. The implication that people are regularly whining about ordinary life events and demanding to have lufel8ng financial support.

Firstly, many UC do work but employers do not provide security or a living wage. The mist modest standards of living require a government top up. That's not down to people who want to work/ are working That's down to a system which those in government and their corporate cronies have engineered to increase profits and dividends.

Secondly, these "Life events" which are being overly medicalised, when cumulative, do severely impact the mental health of the most resilient. In my case, I was widowed two years ago, my business has collapsed due to COL etc leaving me in a considerable amount of debt, my section 21 expired on 11th April and I can't access secure housing. I have to be taken to court to get me out otherwise I am classed as intentionally homeless. In addition since New Years I have been helping firefight my elderly parents situation which is a combination of mental and physical health issues, and is ongoing, complicated by family dynamics due to the mental health issues of one of said parents. I am an only child. I'm recently diagnosed with hypertension and feel like my head is going to explode.

Navigating failing systems on mine and my parents behalf is a full time job in itself.

I did not choose this. It is a series of unfortunate events and many others are in similar positions.

I would like nothing more than to be in a stable enough position to appeal to an employer. At my age, 55, I apparently could be a carer. Never mind the CPTSD I apparently have from my Mum's death (cancer), watching my DP die unexpectedly (also cancer) or my first dementia rodeo with my MIL who I cared for while working for 18 months.

Poor life choices and planning? Lack of resilience? Probably in some areas. But when you're in the thick of it you end up dealing with the best option available at the time, not calmly planning for the long term and how you can be useful economic unit.

Sorry for the rant. As I say, I'm aware others have it worse, and I feel for everyone struggling.

The world is a shitshow and the shovels get smaller every day.

No, no. All the benefit cheats are loud and proud about cheating, according to MN.

They don't manage it. Without evidence, they end up like yourself, with no award.

Ok so you know the effect and symptoms of every single illness and disability and how they affect every person. On their good and bad days.

@Potentialmadcatlady I'm so sorry you're dealing with all this. It sounds really tough

He's making out like the fucking ills of the world are caused by someone taking a couple of weeks off work sick?
You hate people who worked full time, several jobs at the same time, paid their taxes, then through no fault of their own are unwell.
Why not get your vile plutocrat mates to pay a decent proportion of tax? That might help a bit more than branding the sick a bunch of scamming workshy degenerates.

I wonder if universal basic income is the solution. This would ensure everyone has sufficient £ for a simple life, enough to meet their daily needs but not luxury

And if you want / can do more, you can

Maybe they have timed the release of this to deflect attention from the sex and finance scandals that are oozing out of the Tory government.

How come you had CF with no evidence?

Didd you not see a CF clinic?

Very well said @SerendipityJane

This. Diagram. Is. Bull. Shit

To start with, the big elephant in the room is 'tax avoidance'. There isn't a single legal definition of what tax avoidance actually is, let alone an agreed method that can accurately calculate the amount of money involved hence why you have two vastly different circles in the same diagram. Some bodies include people putting money into ISAs as a form of tax avoidance, whereas others suggest that it must be using a loophole. Either way, it's not illegal and arguably not necessarily immoral. For example, if a 60 year old gifts her child a sizeable amount of money then this could be classed as tax avoidance as she isn't paying inheritance tax on it (presuming she lives 7 years after the gift). Should we really all be paying up to 40% on all the money we gift to others over our lifetime irrespective of the fact that we could go on to live many more decades?

Also and perhaps most importantly, your diagrams handily fails to mention the ying to the yang which would be 'benefit optimisation'. This would be those people that work within the rules to claim as much money from the state as possible, often using the rules in ways that they aren't intended to be used. We all know those people in couples that don't technically live together for benefits purposes but for all intents and purposes act as a family unit. We also know those that deliberately work a set number of hours to maximise benefits or exaggerate health issues to claim higher levels disability payments. Lots of this isn't technically fraud but we all know it's hugely expensive and I would wager would be a massive circle on that diagram of yours. This absolutely needs to be tackled and putting up some inaccurate and misleading diagram is a deliberate red herring.

After going through a mental health crisis last year ( where I couldn’t function or leave my bed for 3 months) I experienced first hand how utterly shit mental health care provision is in the UK.
It doesn’t surprise me we have so many unwell people in the UK along with the dire NHS.
We need the biggest reform in history of health care and if voter’s decide to keep the Tory’s in this will never happen.

But are the people in question saying be shackled to them for life? And a fair proportion of them probably do have a job. It’s just that jobs don’t pay enough alone. The system is designed that way.

I notice that you don’t mention all the times on here people mention that you shouldn’t disclose a disability or illness when you apply because people won’t take you on. Or people’s issues with reasonable adjustments or people needing more time than most others would off sick.

A lot of people would be more able to do some work if employers were better and more understanding employers. A situation the government hasn’t helped by allowing them greater freedom to sack people in the first two years.

This.

Plus surely people will still be able to skive……? If you get someone who says my back is so bad, I can’t walk, stand, etc is some non medical person really going to say go back to work? I’m not saying all people with bad backs are skiving by the way. I spend years with no sickness and then last year my back went and I was two weeks in bed, on all sorts of painkillers. No way could I have gone to work regardless of what anyone said.

I have no love for the Tories whatsoever, and wouldn’t trust them to open a paper bag.

However, I saw a very interesting interview with a GP this morning who said that if he wanted to refuse a fit note request, he would need to spend time reviewing the person’s job description with them to identify reasonable adjustments, then have them consult with their employer and follow up. None of which he can do in a bog standard 10 minute GP appointment. Having fit note requests referred from the GP to an occupational health professional specialised in this area seems an eminently sensible way forward, I just don’t trust the Tories to do it fairly.

NeedToChangeName.. Thankyou. It is what it is. I’m happy to do it for the ones I love.
The hardest bit is the crap that is thrown at you because of circumstances you didn’t ask for. The being treated like shit by DWP when you go for endless appts for Pip for your son whose condition is never going to get better only worse. The total disdain thrown at you by people who think you are having a lifestyle choice!
I chose to make a career for myself before having kids. I chose to have only two once we were financially secure so I could afford our mortgage and continue with my ( management/well paid) job.
I didn’t choose for my ex husband to abandon us because he didn’t want to deal with his disabled son, loose our home because I couldn’t work anymore as I was spending ( literally five) years in hospital in another part of the country.
The hardest bit isn’t living on nothing, never having an holiday, no new clothes, meals out, heating on, any luxuries at all really… the hardest bit is constantly having idiots like Sunak say you need to get a job, it’s your own fault, other people judging you for keeping your family going against the odds.. that’s the hardest bit 💐