Don't be poor, disabled, sick or elderly . .

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/apr/19/rishi-sunak-sicknote-culture-welfare-reform-post-office-horizon-conservatives-labour-uk-politics-lastest-updates

So this is a big part of the next Tory strategy to get elected.

I hope the buggers don't get in

Sunak has said all being forced to work will be given therapy. People on PIP struggling with chronic mental illness will need specialised therapies for ptsd, abuse, rape, grief , BPD, EDs etc not a bit of mindfulness.

Hardly a reason for voting for more of the same from the people who got us into this situation, is it?

I know right, whatever people with health issues have done to them.
They actually showed some figures in LBC comparing the % of GDP spent helping people who are on the sick or disable, and amount of work hours loss due to sickness ad UK is low on those figures.
They have waiting lists on the GP, on surgeries and treatments, sometimes they do not have the medicine you have been prescribed in the pharmacy... Yet, if you do need some support while you get your health fixed (by a system that they have broken), you are treated as a pest that leeches on society. Nevermind if you paid your taxes dilligently up to that point.
Or you have the misfortune of being born disabled, have an accident and so on.
I wonder who are this money thirsty people who favours this kind of policy? How many people they think abuse the system? Have they ever walked in the streets of UK? Work in UK? Share conversations with UK working force? With carers, councils, schools? They seem to be completely out of touch with anything, but their bank account.
But not that this is new. They have been doing this consistently, in front of our very eyes, for years.

@nothingsforgotten It's not the suffering olympics.

People seem to think the tiny minority who are all ready paying tax at 60%+ with loss of personal allowance and 100%+ marginals with children - can keep funding everyone else. They can’t.

The IMF are realising big issues around this. The amount of people we have on long term sick and projected to isn’t financially viable. We can’t afford it. This is coming from the IMF - not the evil Tories. We are having alarm bells raised about our debt. We are still having to borrow to pay our outgoings. We have a bloated state and it’s now the minority who financially contribute. I know literacy and mathematical skills are lacking in this country but wow.

The people who really need help are going to be left high and dry when the house of card collapses. That should worry and decent person.

I’ve never voted Tory but I’m very glad someone is looking to address the elephant in the room. This is coming directly from the International Monetary Fund. So whoever gets in power has to sort it. One is being upfront. The other is trying to avoid the difficult situation.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage

So they need to look at funding the NHS better so people waiting for treatments can access them and get their lives back on track instead of getting more and more ill. There are many ways to do this.

It may be from the IMF.

But how can people get better with no health service? Thats what needs addressing.

@whistleblower99 where did you get the data that most of the public funds come from the bracket paying 60%+ in taxes?

We have a bloated state and it’s now the minority who financially contribute.

This is absolute nonsense. All our public services are on their knees, they’ve been cut and cut and then cut some more. Until austerity came along they were relatively healthy, in the last 14 years they’ve been cut to the bone. If we had a nation with decent healthcare there would be more contributors.

The conservatives didn’t ’get us into this situation’ such limited comprehension of the facts. Reduced down to an inaccurate soundbite that has been fed to you.

Blossom is a recipient of many years and keen to retain the status quo,

Yes more funding… which requires more tax contributors. Can you see where we are going with this?

They can reduce drinking, stop smoking. Keep their weight at a reasonable level. Exercise. Take some responsibility for themselves woujd be a start. Many of the health issues are created by poor lifestyle choices.

Somehow I always got the impression people were being signed off because they hated their jobs which didn’t make sense because the job doesn’t change when you go back.

The job might not change, but taking some time out, with some decent therapeutic support, can give someone the capacity to look at other options for employment, or to return to work with better coping strategies, clearer boundaries or a different perspective on their job. High stress levels make everything harder to deal with, your nervous system can’t reset itself and you feel utterly overwhelmed. Take time off to rest and recover can enable someone to return to work, to the same workplace, and sustain themselves in employment.

She’s nothing of the kind. She’s been a taxpayer all her life, half of it at higher rate. As a pensioner she continues to pay tax. She is far from keen to retain the status quo. She wants public services restored to 2010 levels. HTH.

Under whom exactly? Labour will not be doing that.

Always the same posters. Evil Tawwwwwies. Wait. Even the IMF say we have a big issue? Lalalala Labour will fix it. They won’t. They are making mumblings. We have serious problems. FYI posters tax data was already posted earlier in the thread.

As for the NHS, with an ageing and inactive population I don’t think that’s sustainable either. I think we will move to a hybrid model.

You do know countries with hybrid models spend more?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/

Hhhhm we have fewer hospital beds than 20 years ago, GP numbers falling, record NHS vacancies, poor social care (seem to remember an NI rise to fix that), non existent dentistry services, increased destitution, fucked housing market, job instability, high cost of living particularly key for food prices and a critical failure to invest in NHS technology and infrastructure over the last 14 years.

Years of kicking investment down the road and a long term refusal to develop an NHS Workforce Plan. Even now budgets for tech investment are being raided to pay for basic services.

But 7.7 million people on waiting lists is down to individual choice.

@You do know countries with hybrid models spend more?

www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/"

Absolutely. I think I'm in favour (depending on chosen model and that needs discussion) but the population as a whole needs to understand the change and that it will not reduce overall government health spending. It will also require a lot of investment to make any change.

@Polishedshoesalways why do you instantly assume that people who want better for benefit claimants must all be benefit claimants themselves? It's such nonsense. Some of us who have always worked and paid tax can see the bigger picture and are able to view things with some nuance.

I do agree that a hybrid model for healthcare along the lines of France, Germany, the Netherlands is probably inevitable - but the real elephant in the room is that those countries spend more per capita on health than the UK currently does, not less.

What is the point of paying taxes if we are going to be treated like sponges damaging a system?
So, we pay road tax- roads are full of potholes
We pay NIC- we cannot see a GP, be in waiting lists forever, get diminished services, have to drive to X amount of pharmacies to get a prescription. If people could get seen promptly when they have a health issue, we would have less long sick absence and benefits expenses. People have to work till later in life, so surely that contributes.
We pay income tax- schools are dropping subjects, which seriously affects our children, many people are struggling and the system just keeps puttingvmore and more pressure on them. The economy will soon enough freeze if we do not have some spare cash at all levels. Everytime a tax payer does not have spare to get a cup of coffee, a coffee shop is closer to close. Loosing jobs and taxes.
We pay council tax- bins are collected every 3 weeks now, half the street lights are gone, people are having issues getting carers
We pay our water bill - cannot swim on our waters, may have to pay extra to fix this

It is always the tax payer who pays. Nevermind which bracket you are in. Only that the top bracket may be able to pay for private health care. The rest, we are dependant on the NHS.
The problem is with the liberal capital system current status, the massive pay gaps, the amount of money being moved to the very very top earners ( billionares and now.. trillionares). These has left a vacuum of political leaders in the world, replacing them by opportunists that inflate their own bank account riding the waves of the markets.
And they try to blame the issues arising on the immigrants, disable, lower incomes, on the sick, unemployed and the weather, colour of socks... whatever.
The ones that are sponging money out of the system are the ones sitting at the very top. Maybe we need less massive bonuses, less massive wages, more corporate tax. A way to return capital to the bottom of the system.

I know, it really annoys me. I don’t claim benefits, I work and own my home, despite being disabled and I am very lucky that my situation means I have stable employment and accommodation. I have a good pension and would be pensioned off if too unwell to work before retirement age. I don’t have any personal skin in the game. I desperately want to see a fair and equitable society. I believe employment and occupation is good for a lot people - the routine, the mental stimulation and being around others etc. We do need to be doing more to help those who can work to do work. However, the way RS has gone about it is ridiculous and it won’t work.

@MushMonster
Well said

My husband is in the top 5%
He pays a huge huge amount of tax and NI but I'm Not voting tory as what RS said Friday made my blood boil.
We have an autistic daughter
We had to go private to get her diagnosis and support

We are lucky we can afford to do so but it isn't fair on others that can't and with the amount of tax we pay why can't we get a simple appt

I broke my Leg in the winter consultant told me to go private for physio, again, I did but why do I need too??

Those that can't are
Left with long term consequences that can possibly affect their
Chances of working in a physical job. What if I was a builder or something that means I'm on my feet all day.

Friday left
Me with a very bad taste in
My
Mouth

My daughter works part time but it makes
Her so exhausted she spends the next two days
Asleep She claims
Pip for helping her with her therapy and crafts that keep her in a mentally good place. She may
Never be able to work full time. We will always support her but the thought of that little Bit of independence she has that isn't coming from us being taken away is rage inducing.

And don't get me started on parent blame for school anxiety.