Don't be poor, disabled, sick or elderly . .

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/apr/19/rishi-sunak-sicknote-culture-welfare-reform-post-office-horizon-conservatives-labour-uk-politics-lastest-updates

So this is a big part of the next Tory strategy to get elected.

I hope the buggers don't get in

If you are retired or can sustain yourselves look at Portugal, offering lower tax rates for quite a low income rate.

A few friends are ready to join soon.

It’s the lack of any mental health support being there when needed. Things are left to get worse What do they expect? Things don’t just disappear. In Toryland their young people don’t have the same pressures and if they need support they buy private treatment. In the real world mental illness goes untreated as families try to hold down jobs, pay mortgages and cope with the col crisis. Their young people are just left to sink even further. it gets worse and young people are then unable to work.

They have brought this on themselves.

I'd love to know which Sunak believes is true:

1. That this is an issue that has arisen during the Tories' tenure. Rather begging the question why.

1. That this has always been a problem and they have failed for 14 years to tackle it.

But that same question is one to ask about any policy from a party that has spent so long in power.

I think it was something ghastly like Tax Old Codger Pensioners more. How crass and cynical can you get!

I do wish people would stop saying "Free". It isn't bloody free. It's taxpayer funded, ie people who pay taxes whichever government is in power.

Lets get real folks!

No - they have brought this on all of us who pay tax - which is everyone!

The good thing is that Sunak's plans for the sick and disabled, like the Rwanda plan, won't happen as the Tories are toast and they all know it.

The bad thing is the ableist attitudes of some on this thread won't change.

"Ive recently had someone in my team off for 4 weeks for work related stress allegedly triggered by them not getting a promotion. That's not stress that's just disappointment"

Did the Fit Note literally say that?

@Polishedshoesalways you neglect to mention that both wages and taxes are much higher in Scandinavian countries. I don't disagree that it is a much better model for running a country, but the UK electorate won't wear it. The majority of them are fundamentally short sighted, out for themselves and resentful of anyone they perceive as getting more than themselves - social democracy isn't for them.

You do realise that people have been going to work for a very, very, long time and working conditions in earlier times were far worse than they are now? The workplace now is a very different beast to the one I started in at age 16. Of course we are (mostly) working to make money for our employers' shareholders, or for our employer themselves. So what - why exactly do you think they are in business?

I retired a year early, and spent almost 50 years doing work which bored me silly but I'n still glad that I did it, and if I hadn't taken voluntary redundancy I would probably still be working full time. I agree with the posters who have said that people are better off working if they can, it's much better for their overall wellbeing.

I don't live in the UK, but it seems to me that many people who do live there seem to think they are somehow special, and hard done by compared to people living in the rest of the world, which is nonsense.

There seem to be some very entitled people in the UK wanting high wages for little work,, or else being paid to do nothing. Unfotunately life isn't like that, and never has been.

Of course there are a lot of people who genuinely can't work, but there are also those who think they shouldn't have to and will use any excuse to opt out.

I don't live in the UK

So you don't know what you're talking about then, do you? People don't want high wages for little work. They want to be able to live off a fulltime wage - you know, to have the basic things like a place to live that isn't damp, ridden with mould and not fit for human habitation with a landlord who is raking it in and refusing to fix defects, secure in the knowledge that they can evict any tenant who complains. They want to be able to heat that place to live and be able to afford decent nutritious food. They want their children to go to schools that aren't falling down around them and don't have enough teachers. They want to be able to get a doctors' appointment when they need one. Basic things like that. The UK doesn't provide that.

I don't live in the UK, but it seems to me that many people who do live there seem to think they are somehow special, and hard done by compared to people living in the rest of the world, which is nonsense.

@nothingsforgotten life in the UK now is genuinely very hard for a lot of people, harder than it is in some other countries due to years and years of austerity on top of the cost of living crisis. So yes, some people are genuinely 'hard done by'. And just because they feel resentful about their circumstances doesn't mean they think they are special. Of course there will always be people who think like that, but I think most people just expect a decent standard of living in exchange for a decent amount of effort. And for many of us that simply isn't happening.

Do you really think that the UK is the only place in the world where people live like that? It never fails to astound me how so many in the UK know very little about the rest of the world.

You seem to have a culture of "poor us, we are the most downtrodden unlucky people in the world" - and incidentally when my country comes up in discussion on MN a lot of people say how terrible life is here, how cold our houses are, how expensive the COL is.

I’ve lived in the U.K. all my life.

Working conditions (apart from maternity leave) were great in the 80’s and 90’s. No stupid appraisals or pm payments. Long lunch hours. I was paid the same wage in 1989 as my dd was earning in a call centre a few years ago. With a difference of 30 years.

Loads of places still had unions that could protect them (miners, Wapping). People weren’t on shitty temporary contracts as much. There was no gig economy. I think working conditions were much much better 30 years ago. People also got paid sick pay, and the thinking was that if a business had high sick rates then it was the business that had the problem and needed to improve conditions rather than the workers. Now we living in a hyper critical hyper stressful workplace where illness is seen as a skive.

People on the U.K. are having an ultra shit time. It has the lowest pigpig of the G7 and outside London is about the 25th wealthiest country in the world. So it’s having an ultra shit time because the government have destroyed it. It has so many sick people because there’s no nhs, no long term strategy for improving the health of its people. No help with increased power bills or rising food prices.

My friend lives in France. Their government capped energy rises at 4% . If only our lovely government did this. I don’t know what country you live in, but EU countries seem better at looking after their citizens than the U.K. rather than expecting them to return to Victorian living condotions

The fact that the UK isn't alone in being a bit shit doesn't mean that it's OK for things to be like that. The UK is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and also one of the most unequal. It's the inequality that bites. Saying 'Oh well, other people have it tough too' doesn't mean that it's all fine. We should all aspire to do better. Why do you think that wanting decent essentials for a proper day's work is too much to ask?

Yes, the labour guy did say and I agree it was very nasty.

Of course there are worse places than the UK, but you’re missing an important point. It didn’t used to be like it is now. We were used to a decent standard of living, and that was taken away.

We had a family of Ukrainians living with us for a year before they moved out into their own place. They have been utterly shocked by how difficult life is here. Though they are very grateful for the chance to be in a safe place, their day to day lives were much easier and more affordable in a second world country. That’s how bad things are getting here.

I never said it was fine, I said the UK is not the only place where times are tough. The attitude on here seems to be that people in the UK should have a better life than the rest of the world does, they are entitled to it - for some obscure reason.

And the main point of my post sails right over your head, which is that working, particularly in lower paid sectors, does not cover living costs without government top ups. Those top ups require you to follow rules and add stress and bureaucracy to people already struggling. There's little opportunity to plan for the future financially.

The framing of work as a moral virtue when it is detrimental to your well-being, gives the most benefit to those at the top of the pyramid scheme and leaves people scrabbling around not meeting the costs of the basics is institutional gas-lighting at its finest.

Work like this is what traps people into hopelessness and mental breakdown.

And we're not talking about the "menial tasks" that keep everything going, we can now include teachers, nurses, doctors - professions that used to be secure.

Zero hour contracts. Dodgy employment masked as self employment. Firms that will employ several part timers who have to be flexible for jobs that could be done by one or two full timers and provide security but it's cheaper for the employer to use part timers.

The suggestion to get second jobs which are then taxed higher than the first so the net gain versus time and effort is negligible.

Some people want the world on a stick (often employers), others would be quite happy making ends meet and carving their own little lives out, balancing their contribution to society through work, helping their children navigate the world and having a bit of R&R - and - God forbid, apparently - a bit of fun too. This is now out of reach for a good proportion of society, and to what end exactly?

We get offered examples of people who have "made it" and down the line it transpires it was helped along by inheritance, dumb luck nepotism or connections. Not denigrating the hard workers who were able to grasp the opportunity and build on it at all, but there are also those whose ruthlessness got them there at the cost of marriages family relationships etc.

The big big change that has thrown things into chaos is technology and globalism which has sped up progress - great in some ways - but not everyone is geared up for that.

Now you'll accuse me of whining because "it's not fair" (and life has never been fair - duh) but we are in times of change never experienced before and the drive for more and more profit and people being treated solely as economic units overlooks the fact that human beings are all unique and complex creatures.

It doesn't help when our ruling classes pay lip service to various issues because they see a financial or political advantage to it, not because they genuinely give a shit about suffering or challenges.

Take personal responsibility is the mantra of the privileged to the under privileged and it smacks of cod psychology verging on "manifestation " completely overlooking structural inequality, classism, ageism, racism, sexism, ableism etc etc. Plus "market forces" which essentially reflects gambling on factors beyond anyone's control.

And those in power lie, lie, and lie again.

Is it any wonder people are losing the plot?

People on the U.K. are having an ultra shit time. It has the lowest pigpig of the G7 and outside London is about the 25th wealthiest country in the world. So it’s having an ultra shit time because the government have destroyed it. It has so many sick people because there’s no nhs, no long term strategy for improving the health of its people. No help with increased power bills or rising food prices.

Food prices here are off the scale compared to what you pay in the UK. We also pay to visit the doctor, and there is no free dental care at all for adults. We don't get help with power bills or rising food prices and our health system is in crisis, as it is in many other parts of the world. The price of property is skyrocketing, and social housing is only available to those with little money, rent keeps increasing all the time. Need I go on .......

Where’s “here”?

Yeah, where’s here?

Another 3rd world country like the UK?

Adults don’t get free dental care in the UK either. Unless they’re on a very low income. Also there’s no dentists, so no dental care anyway.

We are very friendly with our neighbour. He is the sort of person that tells you practically everything (most of which we don't want to know).

He has never told us he is committing fraud but he did tell us that he was giving up his job because he disliked having to get up early to go to work. Then after so long he told us he was going to claim job seekers. After a while (too long in my view) they were pushing him to find a job. He is 36, fit, drives so no reason he can't work.

He told DH that being pushed to find a job was stressing him out so he was going to speak to his GP. Next thing he tells DH he doesn't have to go and sign on because he is not getting job seekers any more but a different benefit. He also told DH he was suffering from depression and anxiety so bad he couldn't leave his house. If he had said that to me I would have laughed as he leaves his house every single day.

He has never said how much money he gets but has said he gets some of his rent paid, some council tax paid and money on top. It would not be enough to live on very well but as he works 4 or 5 days a week (full days) cash in hand he is laughing really and not paying any tax or NI.

We know the person he works cash in hand for. Another neighbour used to work for him and he offered DH work at one time and he is retiring later this year so neighbour will have to rethink his lifestyle

If all this is true of where you are, does that not point to a worldwide issue? Why buy into the diviseveness being engineered amongst worker / those who would like to work but can't (or even won't because it seems pointless) rather than at global governments apparently using 1984 as a flipping handbook?

@mydogisthebest you're very judgy. My daughter looks fine to the neighbours as she jumps in her car. She has a disability that causes ambulances to be called frequently and intermittently. I don't need to explain her condition to you but just want to make the point that not all disability fits your expectations.