Don't be poor, disabled, sick or elderly . .

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/apr/19/rishi-sunak-sicknote-culture-welfare-reform-post-office-horizon-conservatives-labour-uk-politics-lastest-updates

So this is a big part of the next Tory strategy to get elected.

I hope the buggers don't get in

Sorry, link here!

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/success-rates

I don’t think she’d lie as she always stresses how much she gets taxed for work and how unfair the system is. So if they’d tried to recoup or fine it would simply add fuel to her disdain of the tax system. Also she doesn’t have the money to pay them back, so I’d definitely be told about that.

Shes a good friend but I think hmrc are pathetic.

It certainly made me laugh. A hollow, mocking laughter but still...

How many times does it have to be explained on here before these people get it?

This is what frustrates me the most. People not getting the help they need.
It needs to be more than cut off benefits after a year.

I would also like to see an increase to the number of therapists, mental health specialists etc. Treat the root of the issue better and not the consequence.
I still do not think additional cash benefits long term is the answer for all conditions.

Ok, I see. I do find it strange though that people would talk so freely like this. It is not like some people will be slow in reporting them.

My DM is on PIP, and is also an alcoholic. She didn’t get PIP for alcoholism, she got it Dissociative Identity Disorder (used to be called multiple personality disorder) which she had self-medicated for years with alcohol. She’s been sober for a few years now, but she’s still very mentally ill. In many cases the alcoholism will be a co-morbidity, not the primary disease.

That must be so hard for you and your DM menomeno.

I agree.
I suppose my friend knows me too well to know I’d never report her, which I haven’t although I will quite freely tell her I think it’s wrong or at the very least act shocked.
The fact I have never reported anyone makes me part of the problem I suppose.

Well said! 👏

Apologies, I take a fair few meds and occasionally get muddled!

@IClaudine i have also seen stuff in the papers and ‘money’ websites more recently re savings and ISAs etc
Labour haven’t given actual specifics as yet ( to my knowledge) but I do recall they are trying to encourage more investment in the uk and isa investments are being targeted which will effectively give a lower return than is currently the case. Think there’s a proposed limit as well after which you won’t get tax relief ( to affect 1.5million people)
There are various investment firms advising how to avoid losses on savings and assets if Labour get in. [The asset issue is to do with one partner dying and the remaining partner being affected by inheritance tax whereas now a partner inherits automatically without penalty and just ‘pays’ the tax on their death. ( again no firm details as yet ) ]
Id look at these firms advice if you are interested any further

Well no, you don't get pip for alcoholism.
Pip is a needs based benefit, not dependent on your diagnosis.

The people saying you do are lying Tory bastards.

I hope you're doing ok and your mum is getting the help she needs. Though I appreciate that's nearly impossible in today's society x

He's going after universal credit to its not just disability

Also UC may berthed amount the government has decided you need to live on" but the rent component is based on your Local Authority Housing Allowance which is often at least a couple of hundred pounds shy of actual local rents. If all you get is standard personal allowance on top of the rent allowance, you have to top up the rent from that allowance and pay your bills which is nigh on impossible.

You can apply for council tax relief and Discretionary Housing payments on top, again at the discretion of the LA. It all takes time. If you get the advance payment from UC to plug the gap before UC starts paying, it gets taken back at perhaps 40.00 a month until it's paid off if it's the full amount. This is how you end up spiralling into debt.

Yes, ideally this would be a temporary situation and should incentives one to find better paying work. However if you're struggling to do that, have Housing issues etc, it becomes a nightmare very quickly, especially if your circumstances are complex.

Speaking from bitter experience.

This

They aren’t addressing the root cause of the increased sickness.

Virtually everyone knows someone who could be working but chooses to live off benefits instead.

That's a very sweeping and untrue generalisation.

We ALL know someone who is working cash in hand but in the pub Friday night boasting about it.

And so is that. What is with these wild unsubstantiated generalisations on this thread?

👏👏 Awesomely put @Rinoachicken

I think you've misunderstood me, I haven't said its easy to cheat. I've said that many of us have met someone who has managed to or has claimed to manage to cheat the system and that this leads to a negative perception more broadly despite them making up a tiny fraction of claimants. Over the years, I have met a few people who've shamelessly boasted about dishonestly claiming benefits. Maybe I haven't expressed myself well, but what I am trying to say that the tiniest minority are making things harder for the vast majority claimants who genuinely need help by creating a negative perception. This negative perception then leads people to lap up what Sunak is saying today. I'm well aware that there are many people who are entitled and deserving of support and aren't receiving it due to the cruel system the Tories have put in place.

Tell me you've never worked in childcare or a restaurant or a hospital without telling me you've never worked in childcare or in a restaurant or a hospital...

Because what everyone who suffers poor mental health needs is a job that pays buttons, perhaps working odd hours, and involving a high degree of stress, plus the joy of "working with difficult people"...

Then you have to start from the beginning with the palaver of an application for benefits when you inevitably lose the job.

I'm not sure you understood my reference to the execrable Joseph R. McCarthy.

What I'm seeing plenty of is people who would be happy in a world designed by the most rabid of every-man-for-himself libertarians.

I've worked in the UK, Canada and Australia. The 'sicknote' culture is very much more a UK issue than it is elsewhere in my experience.

However...I can see why. The wage suppression and deterioration in public services in the UK over the past 20 years is incredibly demotivating. Add in months of grey rain and cold, and I can see why the population is depressed. Obviously its more nuanced than this, but many people have got to the point of saying 'whats the point anymore' and have basically given up. And this is just mental health, never mind the people with physical ailments.

People need hope to feel well and motivated. When they lose hope...well, history tells us what happens next.

I'm coming up to retirement. I'm a nurse and tempted to apply for one of their new jobs. Just so I can give more upset, tired and damaged people more time off. I will regard it as my last public duty.

No surprise, most people know this is the Tory view, surely?

And MPs will cut their expenses claims....and in other news the moon is made of cheese.
Usual Tory rhetoric to set people against eachother.
And jobs are not plentiful if you are over 55 and ageism does exist.

Most of Scandinavia and many other Northern European states suffer the same if not worse and much wetter, darker climate conditions than the U.K. especially in the winter.

Norway for example. Admittedly they are aware of this is and have put some public support and measures in place. There is much more we could do to increase quality of life. Free exercise classes in the parks ( like Japan) Free Access to light boxes for vitamin D and other benefits. Light boxes are not unusual in Northern Sweden. Compulsory Cookery classes pivotal in secondary schools to cook highly nutritious meals instead of cakes. Bigger and greater access and inclusion in women’s and men’s circles for mental health and community support.

The weather plays a small part, and public services aren’t great in some areas but it seems to be more than that, the hopelessness that is seen repeatedly in this country. That is harder to tackle. But it is possible.
The U.K. is a beautiful, culturally rich and historically important country - but unless you are feeling well enough to enjoy it, the essence and benefits will pass you by.