Difficult DD

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I moved here just over a year ago, having lost my DH, after caring for him for four years, to be close to my DD her DP and my little GD. I have done a lot for them, including free childcare once or twice a week, financial help etc. My DD has twice said very hurtful things to me and upset me dreadfully.

Last week, when dropping of my DGD I asked her about her little dog which may have cancer. I have looked after this dog frequently when they go away and am very fond of her. She said, " It's not your concern. It's our dog, not yours". Then my little GD asked for a snack, and already rattled I made a joke and said, "Oh a smack", and patted her on the bottom. My DD went ballistic at me using that word, though she has never mentioned this before, despite lots of other things she has explained that they don't say, and which I have respected. I walked away rather than respond as I was upset and she turned to my DGD and said spitefully, " Your grandma used to smack me when I was a little girl." While that is true, it sounded so cruel, taken out of the context that I asked her to leave. I looked after my DGD all day, despite feeling very hurt.

Her DP picked up the child and of course, she had not told him the whole story. I said that I needed a heartfelt apology from her. Several days later she arrived, supposedly to apologise but proceeded to gaslight me and change what was said by both of us. She left after dropping the biggest bomb and saying that my DH had once smacked her so hard that she flew across the room. My DH never laid a hand on anyone, ever, in the 50+ years that we were together.

I spoke to my DS who supposedly was there when this happened and he agreed that it never did and that his DD never smacked him. She has cancelled a spa date that I booked for us, for her birthday and my next day with my GGD, as if I have done something wrong and she is punishing me.

I haven't confronted her on what she said as I don't know what to do. I don't want to lose contact with my DGD. She had conflicts with her DD over the wedding with her ex, which were to do with her attitude and money, but that's no excuse for saying things about him when he's not here to answer back. My only thoughts on her lying is her hormones (struggling to conceive and on progesterone) or issues implanted during all the therapy she had after the break-up with her ex.

What do I do? I am so angry and hurt about this. At the moment I am just not contacting either of them and am waiting for them to need my help again and to contact me. Sorry for the long post and possible mistakes as it's my first one. I am hoping for some support and sensible advice. Thankyou.

She isn't desperate. Her partner's mum and I usually takes turns one day a week, she goes to a childminder twice a week and she had a Mummy day and a Daddy day. If the other grandma or the childminder is away, I take up the slack. I also pick her up from the childminder and give her a meal to give them extra work time, or a chance for some exercise.

My parents hit me (I won't say smacked, they hit). If I looked at things logically and when I really look back at my childhood I would go NC with them. Having my own child has made me re-examine lots of things about the way I was brought up and made me really angry for a while. I still have to deal with issues of anger when my mum talks about my child, I do this because, well quite frankly it's easier and both parents have mellowed as they've aged.

That said, I recognise that my parents were products of both their upbringings and the times they lived in and quite frankly shouldn't have been parents. Luckily for me, they live abroad so the dilemma of regular care isn't one I've had to grapple with.

I've made it very clear to both my parents that if either of them laid a finger on my child in anger or as discipline that they would never see either of us again.

The "joke" smack would've properly pissed me off, and I would have had strong words with you too.

Also, what earthly reason does your DD have to make up a story about your DH hitting her? I get that you're grieving and her story is challenging your memories (perhaps tainting them) but surely you have to give some credence to what she's saying instead of denying it entirely.

I haven't told her that I spoke to her brother at all. I was so shocked by what she said that I had to check for myself. I know she believes it but it simply did not happen. What us she going to suggest either of us did next?

You can’t categorically say that he never hit her unless you were always with them. Why would she randomly make something like that up? We know that smacking was in your home(as in many others at the time) because you have already said that you did hit her so it’s not beyond the realm that he did it too. She must be really hurt that you outright refuse to believe her instead of considering that it may be the truth and acknowledging it may have happened without your knowledge.

I knew my husband didn't do this and just needed him to tell me his recollection. She may believe it, but it didn't happen.

Why is your version of events the only correct one?

This is how people get away with abuse.

But what if, it did happen? Just consider the what if?

What's more important here? Defending an action you CAN'T know for certain. Or maintaining your relationship with your daughter?

You don't have to say you believe her, but don't tell her she's wrong.

I’m kind of wondering if this is a reverse to be honest.

Op sorry to derail but it's actually DF for father. DD means darling daughter.

As others have said, remember that two children can have very different experiences of the same parents.

On the other hand, not usually to the degree that one remembers being hit very hard indeed and the other (presumably he was definitely present when the event is supposed to have happened?) was in the room and says it didn't.

I do think you need to talk to her - gently - about it. Ask her genuine questions as calmly and quietly as you can, without reacting to the answers. Are you supposed to have known about it at the time? Does she agree your DS was in the room? Is there anything else she can remember about it. Then I think you should hank her for talking to you about it and say that you're going to take this away to think about it.

And then think about it, and whether there could be any truth in her version. If not, at least you know what she believes and you don't necessarily need to raise it with her again, you can just move forward neutrally and observe.

DGD and said spitefully, " Your grandma used to smack me when I was a little girl." While that is true, it sounded so cruel, taken out of the context that I asked her to leave

You're seeing spite here because you're defensive. It made sense in context for her to say it (Grandma jokes about hitting small children because she used to hit small children in truth). Your daughter probably does not hit her children 'as a joke' in the way that you do, so neither she nor her daughter consider it normal; therefore she gave an explanation and context to her daughter for her grandma's actions. Why do you think it cruelty for your daughter to speak about what you had done to her?

Thankyou so much for understanding. I can't do right at all. I had just booked a holiday for all of us abroad later in the year and I am paying for it. She was very happy to help choose where we are going and for me to pick up the bill.

There's a few things that jump out here - you say you smacked her but your husband never - why were you smacking and if smacking was acceptable, why would only you have been the perpetrator?
Secondly, clearly some commenters have never experienced parental trauma because there are many people who have experienced being smacked or emotionally hurt by their parents who do allow contact with grandchildren because often the treatment is not the same and there will be guilt for not allowing it.
If I was you, I'd put down the defensive walls and actually listen to your daughter. The fact you're claiming your son categorically remembers it didn't happen also suggests a golden child situation.

Id get off that high horse if i were you, judging your dd for shouting at her daughter - but at least she doesn't hit her like you did yours.

Bollocks.

If oP was such an "abuser", the DD wouldn't leave her child with her.

She sounds like an absolute madam and I wouldn't be doing any more favours for her until she apologised (including looking after your grandchild)

I bet you did lots of things differently years ago. I certainly did. Just off the top of my head, babies were weaned at 12 weeks, slept on their fronts under a quilt, potty training started at a year old, 24 hours worth of bottles made before bed every night. Are we now supposed to apologise our child's whole life. We all did our best, same as they do. I bet in 20 years it will be different again.

I knew my husband better than anyone and I was responsible for a lot with the children as he was working until late. I dealt with discipline, swimming lessons, parents evenings etc. He never laid a finger on anyone in all the time I knew him. If things got heated between us, he would go out for a walk rather than escalate things.

That simply is not true. Many people leave their children with parents who assaulted them. Some because their parent has actually owned their behaviour and people have moved through it. Some because they know the gp would not do it to dgc, because they realise times have changed etc. There are many reasons.

The daughter is clearly unhappy with the way she was parented. The op admits assaulting her dd. What has she done to heal the trauma?

I’m sorry but unless you where with her every single second you don’t know that.

Look at all the people many many people who commit crimes who have even admitted they did yet their parents / partners / children would swear blind they just where not that kind of person, not a bad bone in their body, wouldn’t harm a fly.

You don’t know. You just believe/hope/trust he wouldn’t and didn’t.

Exactly this. Laugh and have fun together. Lives too short.

Making bottles in advance is not the same as assaulting children. Of course parents should be very sorry they hit children. We know how damaging it is. There have always been parents who managed not to assault their children. People who experienced violence at the hands of their carers are absolutely entitled to an apology.

Yeah sorry OP you've lost my sympathy - not that you needed it, I'm sure. You won't accept on any level that your perception of events are wrong. You describe her as difficult, imply she's happy to take money from you (holidays), and don't seem like you like her very much.

What do you want from this thread? Validation?

You're not willing to accept your failings, and you're just agreeing with those being unkind about your daughter.

Just as you did when your daughter told you something and you went behind her back to undermine her memories by getting another opinion that agrees with you.

The thing is, with childhood abuse, you often don't realise how bad it was until you have your own child and they start getting to the age where various things happened.

This is likely what's happening with your dd, and your super funny joke about smacking your granddaughter has brought back memories.

You won't accept any wrongdoing though, so there will likely be a LC or NC situation as your dad grown up.

I am sorry for your situation OP. All I can offer is my own perspective. I was terrified of my mother growing up. She smacked me hard and often, including for things like laughing at the dinner table and having an asthma attack in church (the First Aid responder had to stand between us to stop her hurting me "for embarrassing her and making that stupid noise"). My late dad sometimes smacked me too, usually at her request. One of the worst times I remember was from my dad - I had to take down my jeans and underwear to be spanked.

My brother was there for much of it. He even tried to intervene and stop some times. But now he minimises and will even say it didn't happen, because that is what he thinks our mother wants to hear.

She has no insight into the damage it has caused me, nor to the effects of other things that went on that she knew about but turned away from. When I was trying to deal with "my issues" a couple of years ago, she made me go to mediation sessions. They ended in chaos with her screaming at me again because she could not or would not accept that her actions were in any way wrong. The mediator (HER choice, all arranged by her) was stunned and put a swift end to proceedings, never to be repeated. He took me aside privately and apologised, saying he had no idea from the way she represented things to him about the true picture of things. He was horrified that he had inadvertently enabled such a scene.

Anyway, I am sorry to go on about my issues. And I am NOT saying that I disbelieve you, OP. But what I suppose I wanted to say is that my brother (I do love him very much, but he is definitely the Golden Child) now says that it did not happen like it did, that I was the problem. Whether this is, in his mind, more respectful to our late father, out of deference to mother, or to ease his own conscience. I cannot say. However that may be, a joke about a smack from someone who used to smack me, would be a difficult thing to hear. It trivialises past humiliations and hurts, however intended or perceived at the time of the smacking.

I hope that you are able to find a happier way forward with your family. But perhaps demanding "heartfelt apologies" may not be the best way to go. Recollections may vary, as they say, but it sounds like there is a lot of hurt there. I am sure that your daughter doesn't want or relish being at loggerheads with you.

I'm sorry I haven't got better advice to offer than this. Best wishes to you.

There may be faults on both sides, tbh, but what is most striking is that your lives sound far too intertwined. Going away on holiday together isn't a good idea, for a start. It sounds like a bit of a distance from each other would do everyone a power of good.

The thing is she will be furious if I cancel the holiday, though I am obviously keen to do so. I agree that it won't work if things are still tense and unresolved.