Threw my son's stick away, cue meltdown

[Nana99]

Son has suspected ADHD, and impulse control issues. Starting work with professionals very soon. He found a stick on the way home from school. Started acting up and refused to hold my hand crossing the road (he's 5). I refused to cross without him holding my hand as I know what he's like. Literally just said 'we aren't crossing until you hold my hand'. He got angry and thrashed his arms about accidentally hitting a random person with the stick. I was embarrassed and apologised profusely, took his stick and threw it away, then told him off and took his hand, marching him across the road. Cue huge meltdown. I could've handled it better but I'm exhausted by his behaviour. He's continuing his meltdown at home.

Can ANYONE advise the best way to handle similar situations? I probably escalated things by chucking the stick. It's so hard in the run up to support being put in place. I just feel shit all the time.

Been there so many times! DS has ASD and ADHD, but there are so many crossovers, I would never try to isolate the issues from one diagnosis to others.

DS would never respond to direct instructions so we always had to use language such as 'we always do this don't we....?'

Sometimes that doesn't work. He would never wear reins or let me hold his harness so I was always hovering. So many accommodations.

Yes - there were incidents where I just removed him from a situation. But I learned over time that normal parenting actions didn't help so you need to choose your battles. Of course remove the stick if he is being dangerous, but maybe keep it and say 'we can play with this when it's safe, a bit further on' or even ''we will take this lovely stick home but it's not safe to wave it around here' might have de-escalated the situation?

My DS has no risk/danger awareness and it is a problem. I don't know if it's the ASD or the ADHD causing that. I have always been careful to keep an eye out - but sanctions and / or getting upset have never helped.

We had so many meltdowns when he was young. Of course our DCs are all different but things do improve. DS is now mid teens, he does have slight learning difficulties, and issues with his social skills (and can sometimes get a bit unreasonable about situations) but the memory of the meltdowns and aggressive responses just seems a dim and distant past......

I think just keep as calm as you can, and don't expect him to respond to 'normal' parenting techniques. No direct commands if you can avoid it. Keep him and others safe, and remember, it will improve. .

I have 2 DC like this - one of them is a lovely teen who no longer hits anyone with sticks or anything The other is still in this very wearing phase. He is also 5 so don't think it goes on forever. With DS1 I found it improved at 6 and got much better at 7. And I barely knew anything then.

You will probably get more ADHD specific help in the SEN section.

In general, what I've learnt over the years is that with this kind of thing, what you do in the moment is of very little consequence, which is exactly opposite to what most parenting advice will say. Of course there are supremely unhelpful things to do in the moment - reacting in kind, physical violence - I'm sure you're not doing that though. (I was advised to do it a few times - I am glad I didn't).

But really, it's not about the moment. It is about working slowly on behaviours one by one and consciously building in support and scaffolding for the positive opposite expectation. And building skills in areas like impulse control and emotional regulation. And understanding their stressors and working where you can to reduce them over the various domains of their life, and doing that with their involvement so that they also learn the skill of self-advocacy and how to assess and address their own stress levels throughout life.

Understanding ADHD will help a lot. Russell Barkley has some brilliant videos on Youtube explaining so much. There's also a good OU course on ADHD.

Understanding how the brain moves between three different states - cognitive / emotional / survival - this helps a lot. There are different models explaining this, I like the one by Conscious Discipline as I think it's the best explanation and Becky Bailey is a really great teacher:

(BTW, something I didn't understand for a very long time - all the "How To Talk" type stuff may help when a child is in the emotional state, which they often are because their brains aren't mature, but nothing helps if they are in the survival state, the difference is that NT children very very rarely enter the survival state, certainly past the toddler years.)

Ross Greene/The Explosive Child can also be really helpful.

Since you can't realistically address behaviours in the moment you need to make a plan of action to start working on the root causes. To do this you start by writing a list somewhere of the most common recurring behaviours, situations or expectations you (he) are having difficulty with. Then pick a couple to work on. By working on, you're being a detective to try to work out what the root cause is, whether there is a stressor (or multiple) and/or what skills are lacking. Maybe break it down if it's actually multiple things. Then you'd work on those skills at neutral times. You also look at what your positive expectation is and work on ways to encourage and reward that, break it down into manageable steps, etc. There is a good course on Coursera called The ABCs of Everyday Parenting which has a lot of good techniques.

People like us are the best parents, because the work is harder, and we never give up.

It was a random stick he'd picked up 5 minutes earlier. I'm sure he will forgive me. Also, breaking something for a child to watch knowing that the child loves and relies on that thing is abusive. I just threw it in a bush.

Yeah- her dad is an abusive prick

So is my son's dad. Sympathies.

I have had many, many incidents like this with one of mine. First of all you did everything you could and it’s extremely difficult dealing with tantrums & meltdowns so this isn’t a criticism - it’s just analysing what happened. When your in the thick of it it’s completely different. I have two other kids who aren’t like this - otherwise I would feel like I was a terrible parent.

Potentially taking the stick in that moment escalated things, especially the throwing it away. With the benefit of hindsight I would have not done it in that moment as your goal was to get him home. So all focus is on that. Teaching him or consequences come second

You say staying calm doesn’t work. But I’m after years now of making huge efforts to stay calm - true calmness where you are a steady rock for them while they have lost the plot - it made a big difference to us. My son rarely has meltdowns now and when he does he has strategies to try calm himself down. Your just playing a long game right now.

I also recommend the explosive child book. It is very helpful.

I think taking his stick off him and he can have it back once you are across the road might have worked better. I found that giving them an out helped them behave better. If they could earn back something they behaved better. If they'd lost something there was no point in behaving well anymore.

Go back several stages and feed him in the playground. Plus drink. Plus something that will help him regulate again after school before attempting the journey home. (Might be a hug or exercise)

Patience. Your journey is going to be longer with a ND kid. Loss of an item can be devastating for them. Full on three day meltdown devastating.

I think you handled it perfectly.
I would have taken stick away & told him he'd get it back after holding hand & crossing road safely. But after hitting someone, even accidentally I would have also thrown the stick away, natural consequences. Embarrassing that he's thrown a tantrum, I'm sure all those parents you felt were watching you were actually just watching in sympathy rather than judging.

I have 3 ND children. Have you tried hugging him with pressure through the melt down? xx

This ^!!
My partner has autism in his extended family. The mother of the now young adult has always maintained strong disciplinary boundaries.
Actions have consequences for all of us. You did well with the stick issue. Whatever his diagnosis, your kid still needs boundaries. Bad behaviour has consequences.

I have an ASD DS4. Sometimes you can't avoid the meltdown. With my son, he's literally shimmering with the buzzing energy and you know something will ping it, or else it's like he's chooses something to upset himself over because he just needs to get the discomfort out.

So yeah, throwing the stick away did escalate things, though it was also a perfectly justifiable consequence. But even if you'd calmly taken the stick, taken his wrist, and walked him across the road while modelling deep breathing, he might have lost it anyway.

It's a bigger picture and a longer game, but what will really help is making school less of a strain. Can you stop at a park on the way home to let him run it off?

Youv did the right thing. My DS used to have similar meltdowns. Very explosive.

He is now a young adult that is the most calm and in control person I know. He laughs himself at the meltdowns he used to have.

Discipline keeping as calm as possible is the way to go.

It sounds like you did exactly the right thing. He needs to learn that actions have consequences. To have let him carry on waving a stick around that had just hit someone would have given him completely the wrong message.

Totally agree , we had this from my DS until 7. Firm and consistent all the way

Absolutely. You did exactly what was needed.

My son is 5, we've just put his paperwork through for ADHD so he's on the pathway and can have some serious meltdowns.

I have been doing a series of course by a local provider. So far I've done understanding challenging behaviour and dealing with anger and conflict. I've found them very helpful in managing his behaviours so far.

I've got a 3 week Parenting ADHD course and understanding and supporting emotional regulation coming up too.

With regards to the situation with your son. You don't say what he would do if he didn't hold your hand, I'm guessing run across the road though. My son won't hold my hand to cross the road so I'm working hard on teaching road safety. I ask him to talk across road but he still runs. It's just a case of keep doing it and explaining why it's important.

With the stick. He should have had a verbal warning before you took the stick. You apologised to the person he hit with it, then I would have said to my son in a low and calm voice, hold my hand to cross the road now or I will take the stick off you. Keep the instructions as short as possible and give them at least 6 seconds to process what you've said (longer for a longer instruction, this is what the course taught me). Then repeat the exact same words and wait another 6+ seconds. If you say new words he has to restart the processing.

I generally say things to my son 3 times. And since I've been doing this he has been following and completing a lot more instructions. If he didn't hold my hand at that point then I would take the stick. At this point you may still have a meltdown but as the action won't have come completely out of the blue and they have been told and given a chance to process the potential consequence it may not have been so bad.

If he had, had a meltdown I would have just done as you had done, held his hand / coat and walked home. Ignore all screaming and shouting. Don't try and talk to them or reason with them, they aren't in a place to hear or understand you. Once at home and he has naturally stopped his meltdown and has calmed down then you talk to him about it. Again using a low, calm tone say I asked you to hold my hand to cross the road. I told you if you didn't then I would take the stick. You didn't hold my hand so I took the stick. Again give them time to process and repeat if necessary.

This isn't always an easy process. We are all only human and we all have our own thresholds of what we can take. I have ADHD as well so I can reach the overwhelm stage quite easily especially when dealing with my son in a meltdown, but I use the techniques I've learned on myself to help me. But I have definitely noticed a decrease in meltdowns with my son since I've been using this technique.

My DC with ADHD gets hyperfocused on objects. The pet avocado and pet pumpkin did not end well. We still have Stick in our hallway twelve years later...

At that moment the stick was probably the most important possession in the world to him and you took it and threw it away. It would be like him flushing your engagement ring down the toilet.

I had a wrist to wrist strap when mine was small so they couldn't run into the road. They hated it so much that they would happily hold my hand to cross roads. It's possibly a bit late for one but saying you might have to buy one could help him behave.

Talk to him when he is calm and you have his full focus. Say you are going to talk to him in advance i.e. "after tea, we're going to talk about what happened yesterday". Apologize for throwing away the stick. Then talk about why you did it - it's wrong to hit people, you were by a dangerous road, he needs to behave when you're walking home etc. Say you don't want to treat him like a baby or use a wrist strap.

You will then need to remind him of the conversation when you are going to walk or if he has a stick. He will not remember the conversation unless you remind him. Once the behaviour is learnt you can stop the reminders.

Punishments with ADHD can be difficult. It's like punishing a cat. They may not associate the punishment with the poor behaviour or even remember the poor behaviour. We used to rub cats noses in poo if they pooed on the floor and spank their paws for clawing furniture. This has been shown to have absolutely no effect other than to make them miserable. If you do want to punish, do remind them of the why. Don't use naughty step techniques. Doing that to someone with ADHD is downright abusive. And taking a toy away won't actually do anything either. Not getting sweets from the shop or not being allowed a treat like fizzy drink or cake sometimes works.

Hard as it is, that's because he knows your love is unconditional. He knows you will not reject him.
My DS used to hit me when he was little and we had a very difficult time, but got through it. Keeping calm and learning ways to de-escalate helped a lot.
Sending hugs xx

@Nana99 many many helpful posts already and I would encourage you to go to all the suggested links….I have learnt the hard way you can’t parent an ADHD by “traditional/authoritative” parenting so for many of us it’s throwing the rule book (as we were were raised )out of the window and starting anew! Teaching road safety from an early age is really important ,with or without a diagnosis, and many kids with impulse control still have the capacity to learn how to do it safely, it’s just realising we have to ingrain it in them in a different way.

You're doing amazing.
You did exactly what I would have done.
Breathe ✨