‘Mean girl’

[backinthebox]

I got called a mean girl today. DS was taking part in a team endurance event. He did not get to choose his teammates, the organisers did, and he was teamed up with another boy and 2 girls, we suspect because they wanted his good navigation and teamwork skills to balance out the refusal of the girls to learn or practice.

One of the girl’s mothers was convinced her DD would not finish. She repeatedly said in front of her daughter she did not expect her to finish. I said she would finish - it was a team event and there was no part even starting if you were expecting to bring your whole team down, it was not fair on the others.

They were making good progress and based on the speed they were keeping up we headed down to the finish line to cheer them in. They were only about 10 minutes from the finish line, but did not appear. Find Friends showed them not moving, just out of sight of the finish line, and they stayed there for about 40 minutes. Eventually they appeared over the brow of the hill, in a much bigger group than they had set off in, and sat down. All the members of this group were girls, except for DS and one other boy, and they did not sit down. The organisers and assembled parents were wondering what was going on. They stayed sat down for another 10 minutes, in sight of the finish line, with DS and the other boy standing some way apart from the.

Eventually they got up and crossed the finish. DS had said that they had been going fine until they had caught up with another team made up of all girls, and then they had slowed to the other team’s speed. When they had asked the girls in their team to keep walking, the other team had said they were bullying the girls and would be reported and disqualified. The boys were desperately keen to finish, so they backed off. The girls then started throwing food at them. They had sat down and refused to move in direct response to the pleas from the boys to keep moving - it was a power play move to show they could control whether they crossed the finish line or not.

The mother who thought her daughter wouldn’t finish was delighted with her DD’s performance, and was amazed she had finished at all. Happily telling anyone in earshot that just finishing was more than she had hoped for and that her DD normally refuses to finish any physical activity and has never walked more than a couple of miles before. I replied that perhaps it would do her good to get out and walk a bit more - if she was going to take part in team hiking events knowingly setting out to scupper the team is unfair to the other team members. For this, I was called a mean girl.

AIBU to think that 1. telling your child repeatedly that they are going to fail is probably setting them up to fail, and 2. you don’t put your child onto a team of enthusiastic participants if you know your child is likely to sabotage the other kids’ efforts, and 3. you don’t praise your child when you’ve stood and watched her actively sabotaging her team?

It made me really quite cross, and quite sad for DS and the other boy. I’ve told DS that sometimes you get stuck with team members that you just can’t motivate, and he did well to keep his enthusiasm to the end. I will be making sure he isn’t stuck with the known difficult members next year though.

I would be annoyed as well @backinthebox but realistically the only thing you can do is to speak to the organisers about the teaming up process. If this was a race it makes no sense to team up people of different abilities, unless they team up naturally through friendship.

I don’t think that there is anything wrong wrong with your attitude, and it’s clear that the girl whose parent you engaged with should not have been in the race. At 12-13 they know what they want, and the girls you described clearly had no intention of being part of the competition.(Also, who brings food with them on a race?!)

I agree with PP who highlighted a correlation between this sort of parenting and lack of ambition also in later life. I am amazed that the 2 boys stayed behind with the group of girls instead of just finishing the race by themselves when the group sat down in defiance. In a reasonable world there would be consequences for such sabotaging behaviour, but given the ever increasing bubble wrap parenting approach in the UK this will most likely not happen.

The girls were out of order for the sit-in. I feel sorry for the boys.

You sound way too over-invested and competitive.

It is a terrible combination really!

All 4dc in the team failed to work as a team. That was a key part of the competition, otherwise they could have continued alone.

The girls prioritised something else over being faster- perhaps friendship, relationships, supporting an injured child. Who knows.

The boys prioritised speed.

Single mindedness versus multitasking!

The girls spoilt it for the rest of the team and were rude to their teammates. I would have said something too.

Honestly, I think the conversation needs to be with the organisers that the kids should be able to pick their own teams if it is competitive. If there is an element who want to sit on a log and chat all day, let them, but don't let them sabotage the people who want to complete the task.

Hiking with people of a very different fitness level is annoying. As a teenager, I joined a different DofE group for a practice hike as I couldn't make the dates of my own group. There was so much sitting down and resting. My group would rest maybe 10 minutes every 5k and just get on with it. They wanted to sit down and rest half a mile from the end when I literally knew the way as a ran that trail several times a week so they didn't even need to stop and look at a map. I nearly lost my with them. I feel for your DS and friend.

Your OP is annoying, eg the speculation about why the organisers assigned your DS to a team and emphasis on the sex of the participants whose behaviour (as reported by your DS) you disliked.

Presumably if the organisers assign random teams part of the point of and learning from the event is for the participants to deal with other people and their behaviour.

engaging in ‘debate’ with the other mum was unlikely to have any positive impact on anyone. Saying negative things about a 12 or 13 year old in front of the DC/other spectators, if that’s what you did, was shit.

you’d also look a dick to seek to influence how teams are assigned next year!

Honestly, DS at 12 would have been seriously fucked off and I would have said the same as you did to the mum. Why the fuck even bother going?

I suspect the over competitiveness of the OP has rubbed off on the DS and he's done/said something to annoy the girls. Maybe he needs to learn how to work in a team considering it's a team event?

And I would say OP is massively over invested in a 12 year old activity. Next time take a coffee thermos and an audiobook and chill out until they're all over the finish line.

I don't know about mean girl, but it certainly sounds like you're having some difficulty in behaving like a parent with an adult perspective rather than a participant in this teen non drama. So perhaps that's why the other mother chose that reference. I find your attitude and behaviour very odd, from your inflation of the importance of a children's activity, to your interference in another mothers conversation with her daughter, to your attitude towards girls in general. If I were you, I'd be more concerned in exploring your own DSs behaviour. A large group of girls felt he was bullying another girl to the extent they decided to protest? Even if you think they were wrong, that's not a reputation I'd want my son to have because that will stick around him a lot longer than any kudos he might gain from winning a children's competition.

This would drive me potty. When I did my gold DofE we were grouped with a boy who kept sitting and refusing to move (consequently we didn't make our planned camping spot before dark causing the organisers to panic that we'd been injured).

Next year could they find a group of four to enter with or does it have to be random selection?

I think you should have informed the organisers about the very poor behaviour of the girls rather than tackling with the mum. You don't know if her DD was the ringleader or not but I agree also desperately unfair on those kids trying to complete the course and being accused of all sorts

If you spoke to me the way you spoke to those parents I be temped to call you more than mean !!

The girls were a massive lazy pain in the arse ( and parents did not help ) but it's a good learning experience for your kid

You sound over involved and extremely competitive

Sure this is supposed to be fun ??

Don't lecture other parents how to parent it never goes down well

^ This.

I’ve read a lot of posts here lately where people just seem to accept, condone and excuse really bad behaviour!

Not team players.
Bullying is ok. (Worrying).
OP was honest, not mean.
Attitudes stink.
If they didn’t want to take part they should’ve opted out.

I'd be more concerned in exploring your own DSs behaviour. A large group of girls felt he was bullying another girl to the extent they decided to protest? Even if you think they were wrong, that's not a reputation I'd want my son to have because that will stick around him a lot longer than any kudos he might gain from winning a children's competition.*

Good point
I agree with this

“Next time take a coffee thermos and an audiobook and chill out until they're all over the finish line.”

Don’t worry - I dropped him off at the start and headed back to the finish when Find Friends showed me he was about 20 mins from the finish. I’d spent the rest of the day training for my own sport! Ironically it was the other mother who had hovered at every checkpoint along the route, and who had walked up from the finish to encourage her child along. (Was frowned on to get too involved with the kids while hiking so I left them too it, don’t think other mother got this memo though.)

Also amused at the assumption that I am a bit show-off-y about my son’s capabilities. I hadn’t really thought much about it until the other mother told me she thought her daughter had been teamed with DS because her DD was ‘useless at navigating.’ Her suggestion, not mine.

I think I will let the organisers know, and ask that next year he not be teamed up with other participants who’s mothers have asked for their ‘useless’ kid (their words, not mine!) to be teamed up with a stronger one in the hope they will get carried through an event the parent is more interested in them completing than the child is. Male or female - it doesn’t really matter what sex the child is if they don’t want to be there, can’t be bothered, and eventually actively sabotage the rest of their team. As I said, I have a DD who would not dream of behaving like this and I would have been just as pissed off if DD had been teamed up with similar kids. DD would certainly have thrown her team overboard and carried on on her own, forfeiting the team goal for personal satisfaction. I feel rather proud of DS for actually sticking with his team, despite the difficult dynamic, in an attempt to get them to all finish together.

I find it really quite interesting that there are so many posters here that assume the girl led a sit in in sight of the adults because of my DS’s actions, rather than in protest at her mother sending her off on an 8hr hike she didn’t want to do to start with.

Anyway, it’s certainly a bit of a conundrum. It would seem there is a branch of MNer who thinks sport and competitive events should be ‘just a bit of fun’ and those who don’t really want to to it should be humoured and accommodated at the expense of those who do. I’ve let DS find the things that interest him for himself, and when he finds something that he has a real enthusiasm for, I get behind him to support him, but let him lead the way. This has clearly been interpreted as me being ‘over invested’ and pushy here. When in fact I thought I was doing the exact opposite.

I find it really quite interesting that there are so many posters here that assume the girl led a sit in in sight of the adults because of my DS’s actions, rather than in protest at her mother sending her off on an 8hr hike she didn’t want to do to start with.

But your own son said the reason for the sit in was because the girls felt he and the other boy(s) were bullying them? Nothing to do with the mum.

I find it interesting that you are making up completely new reasons for the sit in, rather than consider that your son may have been being a bullying arse. In your shoes I would be very worried about how my son had acted to prompt this kind of self sabotaging behaviour. You seem to be proud of him .

Your response is similarly intense to your OP.

Don’t bother the organisers! If DS decides to participate again, on the organisers’ terms, fine.

@backinthebox
Don’t take the weird comments to heart. There are posters on this board who go out of their way to find possible excuses why a man/boy will at fault. I’m sure you would have gotten some different responses had this happened to your daughter, and not to your son.

It sounds shit for everyone involved tbh. Participation/team sorting should be better organised.

You were being unreasonable not because of a competitive nature but because the first rule of outdoor sports is you don't leave anyone behind and you go at the pace of your weakest member. You never leave someone on the hillside nor push past physical limits as that's generally when things happen when people are out of their depths.

Agree the girls shouldn't of been throwing food but if he enjoys hiking and mountaineering then he really needs to learn how you motivate others to ensure everyone gets back and not into situations

The first May be don't leave people

second rule is you make sure don't go with people who are selfish and immature , moaners, faffers, and those just not up to the walk no matter how nasty sone people say you are being to achieve that goal - you don't allow anyone to ruin your day by their ( poor) behaviour and if they say that makes you nasty they are clearly warped

It was a daft event if you have no control over your team and there is no vetting of who takes part

An old club I was once part of we would sometimes have little controls over who came along so would look for brave volunteers to take the wasters

Agreed.

The girls didn't sit down to have a rest, or through laziness. They were very close to the finish line - they felt there was bullying and made a protest. Yes it was a power play, but with a reason.

I'd be looking more closely at the alleged bullying and lack of team spirit of the boys than making scathing personal comments about the girls.

What this thread does show is a lack of understanding of those who are working well within their capacity for those who are stretching themselves. And this is where my P.E. trauma came from - you give it your all, people still expect more and sometimes you have nothing left to physically give but they still keep acting like yelling "come on! Try!" Is going to magically make you ten per cent more fit.

I completely disagree that only children desperate to win should have taken part. What an awful attitude. Everyone would have had their own reasons for partaking

Also it sounds like one of those challenges where kids are sent off with a map and it’s something of a ‘treasure hunt’ to find clues to cross the finish line. So food would have been perfectly acceptable as they last several hours and breaks are encouraged. People can run OR walk but those things are very much meant to be about fun. I know adults who do them!

Actually thinking about it I know an adult who quit doing those challenges because of the over-competitiveness. He told me that people want to carry as little weight as possible and will resort to even cutting out tags in their clothing! And that he was sick of arguing that they needed sustenance as camping was involved when his team mates said that bringing food was something unnecessary to carry. For a 2 day challenge!