Having academic parents is a burden

[Bouledeneige]

Between us my XH and I have 5 degrees. He's a professor and I'm a CEO in an industry body. We divorced when the kids were 7 and 5 (they are now 23 and 21) and they've had some tough times since then. As have many in their generation and as students during the pandemic.

My DD has a Fine Art degree and is transitioning to the next stage of her career. She is a brilliant person, good with people, emotionally intelligent, practical.

My DS has had considerable MH problems throughout his degree. He's just quit his Maths degree in the 3rd year. He's very bright and smart but struggles with pressure. He's lost his confidence and mojo.

What he's saying now is that he started to hate his Maths degree at the start of the 2nd year. He's extremely bright and Maths was always his thing - from year zero he just got it.

When DS quit his degree he said that he felt like he was only doing it because of other peoples expectations. His parents, his friends. But I always said there's more to life than a degree. So many people I know now who have good lives have no degree or qualifications. But university is such an easy middle class expectation post school of a route to work.

But I do think having parents who were so academic in their own lives was a burden not a blessing. Thoughts?

Equally, my academically brilliant mum had really unacademic parents who didn't support her in the slightest and didn't understand why she would totally waste her time doing Latin and Greek and not get a job and make money, so it works both ways. It's only a problem if the parents push the child one way or another against the child's natural inclinations and it doesn't sound as though you did that even if your son felt external pressure around him.

Have a read of Philip Larkins poem….
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48419/this-be-the-verse

It's not all about you. I know kids who have dropped out of university who don't have such blindingly stellar parents.

That must be hard for you and your DS, but I wouldn't rush to blame yourself and feel guilty. Despite that helpful Philip Larkin poem shoehorned in here.

I'm not sure why you think it's been a burden for them.

Yes I love that Larkin poem. We are all fucked up in our own way.

And divorce and all that crap, the pandemic - it's all the in mix.

I think having parents who put pressure and unrealistic expectations on children and don’t encourage them to pursue their own passions is a burden. I don’t think it has anything to do with being academic (I’m an academic, with a PhD, working in a university research role, Dh doesn’t have a PhD but is a company director). We were both raised to do our own thing and follow our own path and given the support to find our own way.

While I’d hate to see my dc fall into a menial job (because it’s bloody hard work for little pay), I don’t think either of us feel like the only route to success is through university and I hope our dc know that. I do think university is a good idea for many/most young people purely for the social and independent living aspect. But it’s not the only way to a life doing something you enjoy. One of our dc is more academically talented and one is decidedly not, but really enjoys sport. Both are fine.

The main thing is, I hope we can model good work life balance. My mum worked stupid hours in a big corporate job all her life and hated it. She worked her whole life doing something she didn’t have any passion for just to be able to retire and finally do what she wanted. I hope the one thing we can pass on to our dc is that there’s more to life than work and I hope they’ll be comfortable enough in life to be able to afford to enjoy life without working themselves into the ground.

My DD also had troubles in uni but she is out the other side. The pandemic did not help. It wasn't my fault. Though both DH and I have a bunch of degrees.

That Larkin poem encourages parents to fall into that neverending cycle of blaming yourself. If you had let your DS game and smoke weed all day, you would have blamed yourself too.

Oh, and you are blaming yourself for the divorce too! Obviously life is complicated, but I think you need to be kinder to yourself.

I agree with this. If you weren't putting pressure on him, I can't see how having academic parents is anything but an advantage. I would be irritated that he's trying to blame someone else in this situation.

It's not about me for sure. But every agony of my kids hits in the guts.

For various painful reasons I was cut out of my DS's life for 2 years of his degree as he had successive mental health crises so I wasn't by his side to help him. But I think he always thought that because he was exceptionally good at maths university was the obvious route for him. It's not been. But he still has those skills.

I come from a background where education is seen as a great achievement- maybe even the only achievement, so my view is likely coloured by that. I don't think you did anything wrong in steering a very bright kid towards a degree, and I think he is probably wrong in putting all the blame on you.

Of course you feel agony right now. Perhaps he will go back after a break. Is that possible? Since he's almost on the verge of completion.

bot necessarily. My Mum was very academic, went to Oxford Uni, so was my Dad. My grandad was an education engineer psychologist 🙈. However, they never put any pressure on me, and I live a (privileged due to going to private school), but happy, normal, middle of the road life. I agree with PP that parents who are academic and also put pressure on their children are the issue. I am soooo careful not to put any expectations on my children because of this, but realise I may be subconsciously…

Yes I get it op (writer and professor here).
No matter how hard we try to not put pressure on the kids, it’s not just us - people have said stuff like ‘oh with your parents I’m sure you’ll be fine!’ ,no that’s not how it works, they still have to do things for themselves!
3 dcs; the oldest is finding her own way, she messed up her A levels but has so many talents we don’t have, I am confident that she will be fine and if she ever wants to come back to academic work she will do it from a position of maturity and independence. The youngest is creatively motivated (film and animation) and will also be fine because his thing has nothing to do with our things. But the youngest is also contending with autism and constantly comparing himself to dh, it’s really hard for him.

Educational psychologist (I don’t know where engineer came from!)

I think parents with unrealistic expectations forcing their children into any kind of ill-fitting moult is problematic. But speaking as someone who grew up around academics and in a town famous for academia, there is something particularly toxic about that culture if you don't quite fit the mould. Stealth snobbery and emotional stupidity makes for a very unpleasant combination. I grew up around a lot of deeply fucked up kids whose parents couldn't ever make peace with the fact their children weren't as brilliant as they were.

Don't get me wrong I'm glad academics exist, I'm grateful for what they do and I will defend to the death their right to do it but it would be a cold day in hell before I'd bring kids up in that environment.

I don't think he's blaming anyone. He's been struggling to keep his head above water. But I do think he always thought, in a competitive way, that if you're good at something you should go to university and excel.

It wasn't for him and Im sad he struggled in for so long. But good for him that he kept trying. Starting out afresh isn't easy. He's starting again - but older and wiser. Maybe not totally robust though.

He's looking at Camp America and apprenticeships. Good for him.

I understand your point, but for those of who university was anything but an easy middle class expectation, it’s a bit grating tbh. Sure, there will obviously be some disadvantages of having academic parents, but I think on average way less than having “non academic” parents!

I can see that but people in my family who had non academic but supportive parents have definitely had an easier time of it than those that had parents with their own track record of achievement and expectations to go with it.
If you don’t have that level of practical and emotional parental support it is probably a lot harder.

YANBU as I think it would be more likely that the child would feel pressure to live up to their expectations and the parents would put more pressure on the child.

It’s not the same but I was clever at school, top sets etc. My parents put so much pressure on me, I used to wish I wasn’t clever then I would have been able to choose a career path myself rather than the ones my parents wanted for me. I chose to take the career path they wanted me to take and I’m unhappy.

Im sure having academic parents benefits in many ways but I can also understand how it could be a burden.

To clarify: I think the parents having been to university themselves isn’t that necessary, but parents believing in and supporting university education is very helpful.

I don't think we ever consciously put pressure on our children. My XH and I are both rebels in spirit - we don't think there's one path. We were difficult and non conforming.

My kids were encouraged to be who they wanted to be. My DD is a hugely talented artist but is trying to find her own way now - sometimes she say she would be better off with a more academic degree. We always said follow your passions and expertise.

My DS was always competitive of spirit. He got a maths scholarship for 6th form and it meant the world to him. But the degree was so abstract it lost him. He has huge potential and intelligence but university has left him broken.

He now needs to find a new path. A combination of so bright you obviously should go to university assumptions from school and everyone else and mental health and the pandemic meant he didn't have the all the options in front of him.

Same here. Neither of my parents or older siblings went to Uni. I got good marks at school and it was assumed by everyone that i would go to university. I was told I shouldn’t be a primary teacher (which was what I really wanted to do) cos I could earn more money doing something else. No one cared what my older siblings did, and they’ve ended up doing jobs they like. Whereas I’ve flitted around doing jobs related to my degree, hating them all. I’m looking into becoming a primary teacher now!

I worry about putting the same pressure on my own children. I keep stressing that they don’t have to go to university. But I worry the expectation from family friends, extended family and school is that they will be top set at everything and that they are letting the side down if they are not.

I certainly get it, I was the only one in my family to go to university, and I never felt any pressure at all to live up to anything - it might have been nice to have parents that were a bit more clued up, but on the whole I was luckier than the people I know from ridiculously high achieving families where they’re one of people that didn’t fit that mould.

as an aside, I do think that’s so important to realise that you have to do what is right for you and not what is expected, it’s harder that, to figure out what you want vs what’s expected.

My DH and myself both have degrees and masters. We have four children, all very different. Rightly or wrongly the one and only thing all our children agree on is that they’ll never achieve what we have achieved. They all feel that just by being born to us there are huge expectations!