Having academic parents is a burden

[Bouledeneige]

Between us my XH and I have 5 degrees. He's a professor and I'm a CEO in an industry body. We divorced when the kids were 7 and 5 (they are now 23 and 21) and they've had some tough times since then. As have many in their generation and as students during the pandemic.

My DD has a Fine Art degree and is transitioning to the next stage of her career. She is a brilliant person, good with people, emotionally intelligent, practical.

My DS has had considerable MH problems throughout his degree. He's just quit his Maths degree in the 3rd year. He's very bright and smart but struggles with pressure. He's lost his confidence and mojo.

What he's saying now is that he started to hate his Maths degree at the start of the 2nd year. He's extremely bright and Maths was always his thing - from year zero he just got it.

When DS quit his degree he said that he felt like he was only doing it because of other peoples expectations. His parents, his friends. But I always said there's more to life than a degree. So many people I know now who have good lives have no degree or qualifications. But university is such an easy middle class expectation post school of a route to work.

But I do think having parents who were so academic in their own lives was a burden not a blessing. Thoughts?

OP, I think you’re being really hard on yourself. I come from a very academic family, I never considered not going to Uni. I don’t feel it was a burden at all. It sounds like your son has had a lot of challenges but these are not of your making, though it’s very natural for parents to blame ourselves when things go wrong.
It sounds like he’s looking to the future positively and that’s brilliant. This will just be a hiccup down the line.

The current crop of young people age 16-25 seem to struggle badly with resilience or lack thereof. Anxiety, mental health issues etc rife.

As a society something's gone pretty wrong, its not specific to you op.

We should be asking ourselves - what changed around 20-25 years ago to mean younger people are emerging from adolescence so ill equipped mentally, to face life as adults?

A few things.....all totally controversial of course

• mobile phones
• the Internet/widespread use of computers, laptops especially, in the home & in schools but for media/consumption rather than computing per se
• amazon/online shopping
• a big uptick in use of nurseries for younger babies/toddlers
• older parents
• reductions in independence/increase in helicopter parenting
• beginnings of social media with msn messenger and myspace

Interesting topic OP

I think yes it could be a burden. Depends on the parents obviously but there could easily be a lot of unseen pressure on a young person just by virtue of having high achieving/highly educated parents. Even if those parents haven’t explicitly said that university/academia is the ‘best’ path.

I try hard not to burden my children with the fact that I have a very academic background and attempt to teach them that there are so many other paths in life. Many of the ‘successful’ people I know have degrees but many others also don’t have degrees.

The only extra positive thing I do believe going away to university can give you is an early opportunity to grow independence and stand on your own two feet.

@Thepeopleversuswork I was wondering if you meant particular families, schools, or even just a city / place?

I think you have a point here.

life has got much harder for young people.

I agree about resilience. My XH and I were brought up by parents who experienced the war. They were loving but distant parents. We were encouraged to be resilient and robust. Not too much sorry for ourselves, poor me.

My XH and I were both pretty resilient people - we had our ups and downs but we stood on our own two feet. I got divorced 18 years ago and i am a case study in resilience and fortitude. Everything I have I earned. But I always just wanted my kids to do their thing and follow their passions and skills. I never ever said a degree was the only way.

But maybe our family cultures were always about degrees and college . And that's what smart or very smart people like my son did.

I think you are over thinking it.

Lots of people have degrees, lots of them are parents, it’s not unusual for young adults to have crises etc

What’s he going to do, a year working abroad might be good?

Have you promoted things other than degrees? Sorry, it's Friday night & I'll confess to not reading through threads.
There is far too much emphasis placed on educational achievements & degrees IMHO. So so many successful people do not come from this and no, I don't mean fucking influencers, twats.

My DS was always competitive of spirit. He got a maths scholarship for 6th form and it meant the world to him. But the degree was so abstract it lost him. He has huge potential and intelligence but university has left him broken.
I haven't read all the replies so sorry if I'm repeating.

I think that Maths is a special case. I've known quite a few good Mathematicians who have hit a brick wall. If you don't get a concept then you don't get the concept; all the hard work in the world will not get you past that stumbling block.
He's not the only one to hit the mathematical buffers, I hope that he can take comfort from that.

There are a lot of people in my family who are highly intelligent but never really reached their "potential" due to mental health issues and ND related problems. I believe it's quite common for high IQ and mental health challenges to go together.

@Bouledeneige I’d cut yourself some slack here.

The phrase ‘can’t do right for doing wrong’ is very apt here.

what do you think you should have done? Not pursued your career/ academic achievements in case you inadvertently put pressure on your kids? I know you’re not saying that, but where is the cut off point?

our children live in the real world where there are all sorts of pressures ( of which parental expectations and upbringing are just one)

part of becoming an adult is working out what bits of society’s expectations we reject and finding what brings us meaning and purpose.

I think people often blame parents for being pushy, but it often comes from a good place, so encouraging kids to follow an academic route is logical when it brought you happiness.

My DS has quit the whole degree. He took a break through stress last year in his 3rd year. He deferred and re - started in January but couldn't make it. He's quit.

He's 22 this summer. He's now thinking of Camp America over the summer and apprenticeships. His university career is over for now at least - he's burnt out.

Both really. Environments where a very high premium is placed on academic success and “brightness” (in itself a subjective word) and where these qualities are seen as moral absolutes as opposed to being a byproduct of circumstance.

I grew up surrounded by intellectual snobs who could never acknowledge that a person could have value if they were not clever (as defined in a narrow way.

There are upsides to being brought up in an environment which emphasises intellect which I won’t minimise but the fetishisation of academic success comes at a very high cost to people who can’t match up to the expectations of this world.

I'm not t blaming myself. Honestly. Everything I have, I earned. I got divorced at 44 and I did everything for my two DC. Their Dad loves them but is distant and sees them rarely.

As I've stated earlier i lost my relationship with my DS for a few years - there was no end to the pain from that. But I never thought university was the be all and end all for either of my kids. Yes my Dd went to Art school but it was all driven by her talent.

I think it can be a burden having successful parents (with or without degrees) as a lot of kids will put pressure on themselves to achieve what their parents have and more. I think it’s even harder if the parents have achieved success from a very poor upbringing.

You sound like a lovely parent and I have every sympathy for your DS and hope he finds his way. University isn’t for everyone, even if you are smart, but schools really push students to go and unless he closely knew someone who’d achieved success outside an academic route it’s natural that he would think university would be a good fit.

My DB wasn’t as academic as your DS but was pressured to go to university by school and our grandparents. He went, had a mental breakdown and left halfway through his third year. He’s now in his thirties, married, two gorgeous kids and earns three times what my PHD level academic sister earns. Try not to worry about him, he’ll find his way in the end.

It is really hard when maths "has always been your thing" and you got into a course you considered desirable, to find that you are suddenly struggling.

DS did a STEM degree, not maths, but had to do a good few maths courses with people heading for a degree in maths. Many struggled with the first Bs or Cs (or worse) they had ever received in their lives. When I say "struggled" I mean they had a personality crisis, questioned their very essence.

I don't think it hits people who are really good at other subjects quite like it hits maths people when they get to university - they're playing the game they've always played but the rules seem to have changed.

Just out of curiosity - was art always DD's 'thing'?

I have a degree and PhD in maths. Both my parents have maths degrees. But I didn't go to university until I was 26 because I had mental health problems in my teens and early twenties. It sounds like your son is bright enough so he can always go back to studies later if he wants to. It really doesn't sound like you've put him under pressure. The brain is not fully developed until mid twenties. Maybe he just needs a break and time to regroup. Then he might return to studying, or he might do something else. He's got a good brain and a supportive parent. He's probably going to do well for himself, when he's ready.

It's a tricky one isn't it? My parents are both academics and my sister and I were (fairly gently in their eyes) pushed. We were expected to exceed and we both did, but it was hard work. I was always determined to not to do the same with my children, as I felt a lot of pressure, despite growing up in a very loving and happy home.

My eldest hasn't gone to uni, but is already on course to be bringing in more money than I'm on in the next couple of years. He loves his job and is happy - which I'm delighted about. The other three? Well, time will tell - I support them with school work and encourage them to think about future plans, but I'm being guided by them as much as possible. I'd love them to experience uni, but if it isn't right for them, that's fine too - I'd just like them to have some sort of plan in mind.

It sounds like you've done and are doing your best, OP. I'm sure your children appreciate it enormously.

My university lecturer father actively encouraged my sister and I not to go to university.

Around 60% of his students went to him to do second degrees because they didn’t want careers in their first degrees that they had usually done because their parents wanted them to.

I never needed a degree. I had no interest in uni life. I worked and bought a house before I was 20. I’m now mid-40s with no mortgage on a 6 bed house, several cars on the drive, doing a senior job I love and doing a degree for the hell of it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

OP, from reading your posts, I really don't think you were to blame, in any way.
My parents were the first of their families (and the only ones of their families) to go to university. It was a big deal back then (60s). I felt a lot of pressure to go to uni, especially as they sent me to private school, and tried to make me out as some kind of genius!!
I did do well, went to uni, professional degree. But I watched friends take other paths and be equally happy and successful. My DH left school at 16 and joined the Royal Navy. When we met, in our late 20s, he earned more than me, had better pension, holidays..
Our kids have always seen there are 2 paths. But they still all wanted/ want to go to uni (I think for the experience/ fun, as much as anything else!) I've never put pressure on them (sounds like you never did either!) Up to them what they want to do
At 22 he is still very young. He could come back to maths later in life. Or not. He'll be fine either way, because he has your love and support

My parents were/are very academic, but they suffered in my mother's case from perfectionism and my father's from procrastination/distraction....so both failed to become what one might call trained professionals. However, they both achieved enormous amounts despite feeling to some extent imposters
This has helped their four children!!! We never felt so completely crushed by academic failure as we should have!!!!! I've passed this on to my children, for better or for worse.
They know that doing brilliantly at school university isn't the most important thing, but to get through it in one piece is pretty good going, FOR THEM not US. We help and show an interest but we want them to be engaged and happy in their subjects for their own sakes. And understand if they feel like they've failed (but haven't really) or be pleased for them when they "succeed"...sometimes reminding that perfection isn't the goal...a B is good too, that sort of thing.

I do ponder this sort of thing a lot though. Being interested in ideas and learning stuff is very satisfying I don't think there is anything to warn against in that sense. But it's a servant not a master.

I’m not sure about the level of blame on parents in the This Be The Verse poem. I prefer:-

"They tuck you up, your Mum and Dad.
They read you Peter Rabbit, too.
They give you all the treats they had
And add some extra, just for you"

mathanxiety thanks for your reply. You get it.

From age 2 my Dd was an artist.And that went through all her Art exams till A level. Her portfolio was included in examiners guidance for excellence. She got good A levels and went to Art school.

DS also was lucky to have his thing. From v young he knew he was brilliant at Maths - and that was true at GCSE - Grade 9 and A level A*. He won a maths scholarship and unquestioningly everyone at school and elsewhere assumed he should go to university. But I have to admit he didn't cope well with 6th form pressures and he maybe benefited from not having to sit his A levels during the pandemic. They were given on predictions.

Both my DC seemed lucky. Just to naturally be good at something and to be very different and not in competition. But they had very hard times through university. One has done well the other is re-starting.

Both my parents went to Oxbridge and gained PhDs.

I never felt any academic pressure (didn't go on to HE) and have success in other ways that is meaningful to me.

I would also say that Maths seems to be a gateway subject rather than end in itself...my friends' children studying Maths at university have become teachers or actuaries or work in banking, rather than "academic" Maths like Good Will Hunting geniuses. So maybe your son will go back into that field, from another angle, if he gives himself permission.