No phone for secondary school

[StillCreatingAName]

AIBU? I feel like I might be missing something obvious on this one, but honestly why do children need to take a smartphone to school? It’s baffling me as to why there appears to be parents on auto pilot buying their children smartphones (£££) now in year 6, ready for year 7 as though it’s part of a uniform policy (and then sharing their purchase on the class WhatsApp, give me strength).

Is this all just a fallout from lockdown times, people were sort of forced into screen life, so now there’s more children at secondary school with them, who may not have ordinarily had a phone until older?
I’m expecting dc to walk home with friends talking and socialising without the inclusion of a screen or mindlessly scrolling social media instead of listening to friends. I can see where a basic phone might be needed to contact home, but that doesn’t mean the phone should be out of school bag anytime during school hours should it, but maybe I’m just being naive, time will tell 🤷‍♀️?

AIBU to say children don’t need to get a £££ phone for starting secondary school? (It goes without saying they don’t need it at all for primary school, IMHO)?

I think all this smart phone free childhood stuff is actually about empowering parents to say no. They know they should. but find it hard. And this is a way for it to be easier for them to say no.

How far should we go though? I disagree with a lot of the things DD's classmates are allowed to do,say, watch,wear etc. Should we ban Netflix, crop tops, fake tan, makeup and so on , just so it's easier for me to say no?

Or should we just own our choices, put the work in, have sensible arguments that we can discuss with our kids (rather than random lines in the sand created by ignorance and fear) and be willing to say no?

This is what annoys the crap out of me. I won't make parenting decisions based on what's best or easier for someone else/their kid.

Or should we just own our choices, put the work in, have sensible arguments that we can discuss with our kids (rather than random lines in the sand created by ignorance and fear) and be willing to say no?

This gets to the crux of the argument. "Created by ignorance and fear" is not accurate. The evidence is showing the very real risks of unmitigated exposure to smartphones on children.

When evidence began to show that seat belts saved lives, adults stepped in to legislate what responsible parents had been encouraging.

I think the issue with “just say no” is that a big part of why parents let their child have a smartphone is the perception that literally every other child has one and so however strong your personal commitment, you are damaging their social life and marking them out as weird and different and making it impossible for them to fit in with their peers.

If more parents said no, it would legitimise it as an option and mean that you would know your child wouldn’t be the only one. This would make it more like any other parenting choice and so easier for those parents who don’t want phones to own their decisions.

I feel much more empowered to say no now that I know of a critical mass of parents from our school who feel similarly and who are openly saying they want to hold off giving phones.

Since I started this thread, I’ve only heard of one other parent- going on to the same secondary as my dc- who is not allowing their dc a smartphone for September.

My decision is not about allowing, as my dc already has other devices, it’s about whether I have to get them a smartphone for secondary and why? I feel very much in the minority questioning it- at my dc’s school- I don’t want my dc’s new school life at secondary to start with a battle. It’s actually making me feel quite sad and concerned about what is best for all the current year 6 DC 😞

Just be sensible about it. There’s no reason phones can’t be safe.

I think you’re missing the point. It’s not about the cost.

My sons are now in Year 11, before they started secondary school the school itself made it very clear that they were not to bring phones to school at all. Break times and lunchtimes were for conversation not scrolling apps. We were surprised but, as the school is 15 minutes walk from home, decided they didn’t need to have it in their bag for emergencies either. They walked as part of a group passing a few friends houses that they knew they could ask for help at if needed. We took a deep breath and tried to be brave!

They left their phones at home on that first day and, despite the school caving a couple of years back and doling out Yondr tech pouches, they have never taken phones to school (they generally leave them in a pool of jam in the kitchen but that’s another story!). They have friends numbers and chat/message/game just like their peers but they aren’t slaves to their phones.

My daughter will go to a different secondary, probably with a gaggle of friends. The school allows phones so now I’m wondering if she could do the same as her brothers but, unlike them, the pressure is already on her as her friends who have phones have a group chat that she’s not on and she already feels left out. It’s tricky.

We wanted to wait till DC was 13 but got one for 12th birthday. Mainly cause we realised all the other kids had one and he was having to take his laptop out to check messages and emails on Teams that are school related. Also taking photos of projects and they are allowed listen to music at times. So it was during year 7 for us.

We have not allowed WhatsApp, he’s not on the class chat. He has a message account with a group of ten friends. No Snapchat or TikTok and there’s limits on browsing time and sites. We got a refurbed phone and the cheapest contract. So far he’s using it mostly outside of school to listen to music and play chess on an app so it’s not been as bad as we feared.

So many things require an app these days, I think my life would be a lot harder without a smart phone. We need to prepare children for the world we live in, which is one which is increasingly requiring smart phones more and more.
we just need to put things in place to make them safe on them.

even if the school doesn’t require them for homework what about:
-keeping in touch with friends
-booking tickets/showing tickets to things (cinema etc)
-banking /managing money/ making payments
-anything that requires you to scan a we code (ordering food/looking up menus etc)
-lots of attractions require use of apps

For everyone saying they need WhatsApp, here’s some info from Barnardo’s

https://www.barnardos.org.uk/news/ceo-responds-whatsapp-age-reduction

The end to end encryption is a concern. WhatsApp has disappearing messages and also allows other people to add kids to groups. You can lock these features down but the child can override this. It’s one of the most commonly used platforms for radicalisation, and grooming. NSPCC has specific information on it as well. So I think if you’re going to allow it then you need to be pretty vigilant about checking it, bearing in mind things can have happened that don’t be on there when you check it. The read receipts can also create an expectation/pressure of having to reply.

We weren’t happy with this and so have insisted on iMessage for group chats. It does rely on everyone having an iPhone or an iCloud account. The one kid that has an android phone uses a parent email iCloud account, they are messaging each other about random gaming stuff mainly. DS mutes notifications during school hours and at night. They aren’t allowed phone use for anything not school related anyhow at school. There’s also a setting on iMessage where you can auto silence notifications when it gets really busy e.g typically if they are sending a lot of emojis to each other as DS finds that annoying/distracting.

I think also there’s a big difference between what a 11/12 year old needs in terms of functionality. We’d still book tickets for example but would send a screen grab for tickets to scan. Also our user settings preclude his Revolut card on the phone for paying for stuff so he still needs to bring his card. In time we’ll relax all these things as DS will be doing things more independently.

For now, he’s had his phone a few months so we’re building up the discipline and trust. I think OP it’s not a floodgates open scenario and there’s a balance to be had. And also depends on your child to a degree.

When people say smartphones can be safe with sensible parental limits, they're going by very limited anecdotal evidence that their child is fine, and against all the research that says many kids are not. This guy's conclusions on the boom in mental ill health in kids from 2010 onwards is pretty compelling

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-new-yorker-interview/jonathan-haidt-wants-you-to-take-away-your-kids-phone

You have misunderstood.

There are a sizeable number of parents that really don’t want to give their kids smart phones but feel they have to because virtually every child of secondary age has one.

The point of the Smartphone Free Childhood campaign is not to insist that all parents say no, but to empower those that aren’t happy about smartphones to resist.

If you can get a critical mass of even 20% of parents who refuse to buy their child a smartphone, because they feel it is wrong for them and their family, then suddenly their child won’t be the only one without a smartphone, because the choice is normalised.

In fact you seem to be in complete agreement with all this - like you, parents who have signed up to the movement feel very strongly that they don’t want to “make parenting decisions based on what's best or easier for someone else/their kid.”

@ICouldBeVioletSky the issue is that the rhetoric around this topic(and on this thread) tends to be ban smartphones for kids/under 16's.There is an expectation of parents who have allowed phones or plan to allow it, to change that.That's what I disagree with. By all means, find like minded people , support them , find options and alternatives.

Sorry pressed send too soon.
But you can't demand legislation and support from others , regardless of how this affects them. Tbh, I think that's why it's not getting much traction. Some people are trying to force other parents into "this is the only right decision ".

Wow you've really had your eyes and ears closed if you think their campaign isn't getting traction.

Really interesting to know @Tamuchly I hope it’s not too different for your DD.

This is what upsets me too- parents of my DC’s friends laughing it off because their child is ok on a phone. One of them said there’s literally nothing that can be done to ban under 16s from owning, they compared it to hoping your child won’t touch alcohol until they’re 18. My dc and their dc (already has smartphone) are good friends at primary, with meet up plans currently arranged via parents. I know this all changes from year 7…

And we're back to "ban" .

Yeah I'm sort of in the same camp as @ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat

My 3 are beyond school age now, but when they were there a smartphone was an essential part of the tech they used to manage the chronic (potentially life-threatening) medical condition 2 of them had. Would I have agreed to a phone ban because other kids misused social media? Would I fuck.

There’s always one. Obviously no one is going to ban the child with the life threatening illness from using a phone to keep themselves alive.

Absolutely nobody is suggesting banning smartphones that are used as medical equipment in a school setting. As I said much further upthread, I have a work colleague who uses their phone for exactly this reason.

Oh there's a lot more than one @ShelfShark – 32,000 school age DCs with T1 diabetes are increasingly using this tech. And you sound pretty sensible, but honestly you'd be surprised how many people, both on MN and IRL, who don't think it should be an exception.

But my point is, there are always going to be DCs with smartphones that need to be on in most school settings. None of the measures suggested – handing them in when you arrive at school, having them in your bag but turned off, giving them to the teacher at the front of the class etc, let alone a ban – would be an acceptable alternative in this scenario.

A ‘ban’ for maybe year 7s at least? Yes it is a ban, it can’t really be rules altered according to type of phone or lenient for the child who has no social media apps.

A better word is needed than ‘ban’ on a society level, but it works for during school hours. In the same way smoking is ‘banned’ in workplaces now- we make reference to a smoking ban- even if several employees in a small office are smokers, the ban means they can’t smoke in the same environment as their non smoking colleagues…

And no one is suggesting that those kids would have to hand in their phone.