No phone for secondary school

[StillCreatingAName]

AIBU? I feel like I might be missing something obvious on this one, but honestly why do children need to take a smartphone to school? It’s baffling me as to why there appears to be parents on auto pilot buying their children smartphones (£££) now in year 6, ready for year 7 as though it’s part of a uniform policy (and then sharing their purchase on the class WhatsApp, give me strength).

Is this all just a fallout from lockdown times, people were sort of forced into screen life, so now there’s more children at secondary school with them, who may not have ordinarily had a phone until older?
I’m expecting dc to walk home with friends talking and socialising without the inclusion of a screen or mindlessly scrolling social media instead of listening to friends. I can see where a basic phone might be needed to contact home, but that doesn’t mean the phone should be out of school bag anytime during school hours should it, but maybe I’m just being naive, time will tell 🤷‍♀️?

AIBU to say children don’t need to get a £££ phone for starting secondary school? (It goes without saying they don’t need it at all for primary school, IMHO)?

My teenager keeps her phone better than I do 🤣

Let me know how that goes for you 😂😂😂

The reality of it is that you just have to mind them. It's one more head wreck that wasn't there when we were young. But it's here now and it's going nowhere. So better to get copped on to it imo

I use my phone for so much, it’s pretty much a necessity to daily life. If we want children to learn to function in society they need to learn how to use a a smartphone

some schools actually have them use them for part of their work in class and its just safer to see where they are with tracking on there, its not the 1980s and maybe you don't remember but how many kids and adults just disappeared back then.

My son is yr 7 and has been asked and emailed multiple times by the school about taking his phone into lesson as they will be using them for a quiz /all logging into something/setting something up etc.

Homework is not given in class and has to be accessed via an app. Can be done online but all homework is done and set online via apps

My son actually hates his phone and often forgets to even turn it on but the school do ask them to take them in for various reasons etc. There just aren't the options to 'write It down in class' etc for homework. It's often not even set by the teacher they even have for that subject

School is a very different place to what it was in the 90s when I was there (with my mobile!!)

They don’t need a smartphone for school (although I note from above some schools offer they can bring them into a lesson), some parents will like to be able to track them walking home. Kids get distracted and I have seen a few walk out in front of my car, I’ve slammed my brakes and they haven’t even looked up.
They may feel social pressure to have one, they are also a large part of life in general and I see a fair few adults staring into them at any given moment.

@Shrodingershousemove check this out smartphonefreechildhood.co.uk

My two high schoolers both have smart phones, as they need to have all the school apps to access homework, timetables etc…. I wanted them to have smartphones though because their high school is a 40 minute walk away, so I can look on the map to see where they are and make sure they are walking a safe route home from school, we live in an area with terrible phone reception so if they need to ring me at least they can use WhatsApp.

I had a phone in secondary from year 8. I’m 37 now. It was a Nokia 3210 with snake on and I spent £5 a week for credit to text my mates.

My point is this is nothing new, decent phones are just way cheaper.

Tech isn’t going anywhere. Embrace it. I now work in cyber security in human behavioural machine learning. Having a phone early did not turn me into a zombie.

Tech is the future yet so many people treat it like it’s the devil due to lack of their own skills and knowledge.

What is your actual concern exactly?

One of the main reasons I restrict tech is opportunity cost. I don’t think TV is bad per se, but it is basically a waste of time. My kids are not allowed tv (unless they are sick or watching big sporting events like the Olympics, Wimbledon- not sure why we make that exception but there you go). As a result they spend many hours reading, playing etc. I consider these a much better use of time and I want them to learn not to waste their precious lives so that habit stays with them. Phones/computers can be very useful but I think for most people the time spent on them is 10% useful 90% pointless arguing on mumsnet time wasting. So we are not doing smartphones until absolutely essential, hopefully aged 14. Even then they will be heavily restricted.

Agree with you op.

I feel that the main reason most parents give phones to their kids is because everyone else does it.

Really worried about getting to tween years with my kids. Mental health and all that.

A smartphone is completely different to an old Nokia. Our concern has been explained many times throughout the thread. Tween and teen mental health have gone through the floor since 2010 and there's lots of evidence it's as a result of smartphones and social media.

Thanks for summarising. I haven’t read the whole thread, just some.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying re: social media. However the answer is not for a blanket ban, rather older generations (including parents of teenagers) to educate themselves and their children rather than fearing it in its entirety.

In response to some other comments and going even further, Minecraft and Roblox can be harmful for children (yes I appreciate going off on a tangent), but they don’t need to be either if a parent learns to navigate controls surrounding it. They don’t bother and give endless and unmonitored screen time exposing children to risk. The principles around teenagers and mobile phones are no different.

Fearing the outcome isn’t educating yourself to manage the potential outcome. The vast majority of parents fly blind to it.

Watching the news this evening there was a segment on social media and parents concerns and fears. They then referred to WhatsApp as social media - it isn’t. The parent interviewed said they didn’t want their friends knowing what they were up to all the time on WhatsApp. They don’t. They clearly had no idea what WhatsApp was. This is an example of a parent panicking when they haven’t got a clue what they are panicking about.

Social media and societal pressures extend far beyond the likes of Instagram and Tik Tok. The wider societal norms and culture in which we live push our children and teenagers down the varying paths we see, not simply social media. Stopping it won’t prevent the problems. Education at all ages will. If children aren’t exposed to certain platforms and conditions, entering the world in which they will live when they are older will be detrimental. It’s about controlling or
moderating what they access. 10 years or so from now we will be far more digital and consumerist than we are today. Whether that is a good or bad thing is a discussion for another time, but it is fact.

So…to answer the original question, I think the fear is far more complex than ‘social media is evil and will cause mental health problems,’ and no, I don’t see an issue with phones for secondary aged children, providing controls are in place.

It's terrifying. The amount of kids with phones and access to the web, unrestricted, is scary. They are probably accessing graphic porn and forever damaging their poor tiny brains. God help us all.

My concern about this is that ‘educating’ kids doesn’t cut it when you’re dealing with something addictive. You could say we should educate kids to handle small amounts of alcohol from age 10 onwards. We don’t do that because they can’t handle it, physically or behaviourally. Imo it’s the same with phones and tablets. The harms outweigh the benefits hugely until you get to at least mid-teens.

I think there’s something about the lights, colours and most of all, the gorgeous, dopamine-stimulating touch screen, that humans just can’t resist.

Well, re: alcohol we have a binge drinking culture over and above other European nations, whose children are exposed to it younger than we are. This is shifting to showing statistics being higher here now too re: vaping (admittedly I only read one article on that, so happy to be informed otherwise).

Appreciate your argument around alcohol and I actually agree (as in it’s my personal opinion which is based on nothing other than emotion). I don’t think however the data would back either of us up on this one.

The algorithms on social media are 100% by design to hook us in and cause addiction for all the reasons you state. As such, we cannot escape it, hence we need to learn to manage our ‘fix’. The parents need educating as much, if not more than children however. Children are tech savvy, they don’t know how to regulate and manage emotions as part of growing up. If parents are behind the tech they can’t help them navigate their emotions in that space.

I find it all really fascinating. I would like to think governments and regulators will become more knowledgeable in the coming years to combat the problems we see. However Big Tech will always be one step ahead because they pay immensely well so there isn’t the pull for those clever folk to work for public sector, unless they’re passionate about ‘the mission’.

The apps are designed to be addictive. The algorithms suggest more and more stuff to keep your interest.Just one more,what harm can it be, they're only 1 minute long.... 3 hours later....For all the complaints about how awful YouTube is years ago, the short vids/reels/shorts are so much worse for attention span , content, intensity and quantity of "information" and sensory overload etc.

That's without the actual issues with content, values and lifestyles promoted, product placement and promotion and the need to also be popular,famous, get the followers,get the likes .

Mine got his phone at the start of yr 6 as he was starting to walk home alone and I wanted to be able to track him and him be able to get in touch if needed.
Rules are: we can check the phone when we ask him to - he knows this is to protect him. And it stays downstairs to charge when he goes to bed.
It’s set up linked with mine, so if he tried to download anything (apps etc) it pops up on my phone to authorise or decline. He has no social media.
He does use Whatsapp to talk to a couple of mates, but mainly to share Wordle scores with his aunt who also plays. 😂🤣
He also has the app for his bank account so he can check himself how his savings are doing and how much he has to spend. I work in finance, and I believe it’s a great tool to teach him money management. (He has a spending pot, short term savings pot for specific bigger things he wants to save up for, slightly longer term savings pot for bday and xmas prezzies etc).
Finally, my mother had no qualms in not doing this or forcing me to wear that and I had a really hard time in senior school.
I swore no child of mine would ever feel like that. Not having a phone amongst his particular peer group would make him the odd one out.

Raise it with the school. It does not have to be like this and there should be a screen free alternative.

As a parent of a dd in year 11, I honestly wish that phones at school were banned. The constant disruption of Snapchat, tiktok and listening to music during lessons using AirPods has been a nightmare!! Nothing but distraction and unfortunately the teachers are not able to manage it, no matter how hard they try!! My dd has also admitted how toxic and distracting the phones can be but finds it very hard to pull herself away from it. She was year 7/8 when Covid hit and the phones became their lifeline, tiktok went crazy, FaceTime and houseparty. She didn’t have Snapchat at that point, that awful app came later as I wouldn’t allow her to have it but eventually caved 🙄 In my personal experience, the phones at time have been hell and I seen the most hateful and vicious messages and videos. If I could turn back time I would. OP stand your ground and go with your gut, it’s 100% correct.

They should be. At school, they can kick a ball, walk around or at least chat to each other. Outside of school they can walk in the woods, climb, explore, play in the river or the snow, ride bikes or skateboards…

The more we talk about this issue, the more parents will be encouraged that not “everyone else is doing it” and there is another way.

There should be but there isn't. They basically miss out and get it set as homework to do anyway once home so they still have to access a screen. Regardless of what screen it is and where they still have to spend hours using one for homework. Even their reading homework has to all be done online on an app. I hate it and am looking at alternative schools but I've found they're all pretty much the same regarding homework all being online, books online etc.

My sons not a gamer and doesn't socialise on phones so he doesn't really want one but has needed one for school so as not to fall even more behind.

They're like a necessary evil now so might aswell accept it and teach him to use it properly. At least it's making him hate them even more 😂

So why not do it now? Support your DD in stepping away from it. She sounds like she would be quite cooperative.Delete apps now and take control/the blame. Fill up her time with other activities/hobbies. You're still the parent. You can change your mind if things aren't going ok.