No phone for secondary school

[StillCreatingAName]

AIBU? I feel like I might be missing something obvious on this one, but honestly why do children need to take a smartphone to school? It’s baffling me as to why there appears to be parents on auto pilot buying their children smartphones (£££) now in year 6, ready for year 7 as though it’s part of a uniform policy (and then sharing their purchase on the class WhatsApp, give me strength).

Is this all just a fallout from lockdown times, people were sort of forced into screen life, so now there’s more children at secondary school with them, who may not have ordinarily had a phone until older?
I’m expecting dc to walk home with friends talking and socialising without the inclusion of a screen or mindlessly scrolling social media instead of listening to friends. I can see where a basic phone might be needed to contact home, but that doesn’t mean the phone should be out of school bag anytime during school hours should it, but maybe I’m just being naive, time will tell 🤷‍♀️?

AIBU to say children don’t need to get a £££ phone for starting secondary school? (It goes without saying they don’t need it at all for primary school, IMHO)?

Thanks for posting about the Jon Haidt talk. I have forwarded on to my eldest as he agrees that social media is ruining the minds of young people who are constantly using these phones from a young age. So sad seeing the young boy scrolling an imaginary phone. Is this what it has come to?😔

DS almost 14 has a smart phone but hardly looks at it. He prefers going out in person to spend time with friends or cycling or chatting with parents or his siblings. I am glad he is neither up nor down about it.

Definitely don't rush to getting them a smart phone.

Smart phones without social media. That's what we need. Only educational apps allowed. No pron. No vacuous crap.

Eg a dumb phone for calls. A home desktop computer for word processing or internet research tasks. Print out the bus timetable and put it in your bag. Plan your journey in advance and print out a map if if required. A smart/bluetooth speaker/ Yoto player for music/audio books/ podcasts. An iPad with only specific apps loaded on to it, without access to the internet or any messaging or social media etc.

How much would that cost? That home computer and even ipad carry the same risks unless supervised 100% of the time.

Just to point out, you can be pro-smartphones for 12 year olds (very happy with my child having one for use on the bus/out of school) but totally against use in school time.

Our school is also strict - they need to be turned off in bags from the start of the school day and not taken out till the end of the school day. My Son wouldn’t dare take it out as I imagine its detention for using it in school time, not to mention the consequences at home too (losing having it). I think this is what most Secondary schools have adopted - ive not heard of any schools in our area where kids are walking round on smartphones at lunch/break. I dont have a problem with him playing games on it with his friends on the bus.

I imagine a child without a smartphone on the bus is most likely sitting next to a friend with one, so still probably looking at one/using it.

The problem with the phone is that is in their pocket all the time and follows them everywhere and other people can contact them on it or send things unsolicited, and they are using it outside the home without any supervision at all. It’s all singing, all dancing, and gets brought out all the time instead of socialising or engaging with the world around.

A desktop computer is much easier to supervise, obviously doesn’t get taken around with them, and an iPad can be set up so that it doesn’t have an internet browser at all, just whatever educational apps you need. They are also easier to supervise ans the screen is bigger, and they are easier to take away , to leave at home, after a task has been completed. They are less disruptive and addictive than smart phones, but yes they still do need supervision. iPads can be almost as bad as smart phones in school if the parent allows them to be loaded up with games, messaging and social media apps. However, If it’s only got wifi then they can’t be using it all the time out of the house like a smart phone.

I take the point about price, but a basic desktop computer and dumb phone will be cheaper than a smart phone. It depends what the priorities are for functionality versus protection.

Our school is also strict - they need to be turned off in bags from the start of the school day and not taken out till the end of the school day. My Son wouldn’t dare take it out as I imagine its detention for using it in school time, not to mention the consequences at home too (losing having it). I think this is what most Secondary schools have adopted - ive not heard of any schools in our area where kids are walking round on smartphones at lunch/break.

Unless you’ve been in a lesson or supervising the playground you might be surprised. Many schools had these rules, but children are so addicted to these things that they are sneaking them out all the time unless they are locked up. Even if your son is not doing it, you can bet he is losing instructional time from his teacher having to deal with kids constantly taking them out and playing on them, then kicking off and refusing to hand them in because they are completely addicted and unable to regulate themselves. In my experience, the only thing that really works is locking them away, if they are brought to school at all .

I imagine a child without a smartphone on the bus is most likely sitting next to a friend with one, so still probably looking at one/using it
This is why I’m saying we need a community discussion around this - your child is only as safe as the least protected child with a smart phone at the school.

You can have all the community discussions you like, DCs who need a smartphone with them and on at all times for medical reasons are still going to be doing so whether the school community likes it or not, and whether a school bans them or not.

Obviously you would hope that they are not being misused, but that remains a possibility as you rightly say.

Obviously if it is needed for medical purpose then they would need to have it, but presumably that’s quite a rare situation and doesn’t apply to the majority of kids who have smart phones. If it is only 1 or 2 kids in the school who have one it’s going to be a lot easier to manage misuse than if every child has one in their pocket.

Loving all the different views on this. We really need loads of discussion around this topic.

I had my kids outdoors today away from screens (6 and 8yo). 1hr 20 mins to run an errand in town, walk in and bus it home. Fresh air, chat about what we see. Loved it every second.

Headteacher at their primary school insists that parents don't bring children in until 8.55am (Bell rings 9am sharp ) I ignore this and have for months and months and get there at 8.45am every day so that they're out in the fresh air for as long as possible playing with other children who also show up early. They need that outdoors time before school. Not looking at screens in the morning.

10 mins a day extra play outdoors, x5= 50 mins per week. Add that up over a term. We are potentially looking at several hours extra outdoors time at the beginning of the school day. That's priceless.

One of my eldest children's chemistry teachers can't stand all the technology. He says it just gets in the way of teaching his subject. He's trying his best every day but as @Helar rightly says it's wasting teaching time asking pupils to focus on the lesson instead of their numerous gadgets.

Sure, in the overall scheme of things a small number. I think 32,000 children in the UK have Type 1 diabetes and not all of them – or even the majority, currently – use this tech to manage their condition. But that number will increase.

And what happens if another DC grabs said phone and misuses it? Even then you can't punish the child with the medical condition by removing their phone.

All I'm saying is that schools will need a more subtle, nuanced approach than a total ban on smartphones, or removal as a punishment for misuse.

Absolutely! I wonder if you’ve heard of the 1000 hours outside challenge? I never manage to actually persist with tracking our hours but I like to follow along with the podcast and the FB group for inspiration and encouragement.

https://www.1000hoursoutside.com/

I’m not sure how that is managed as it’s not something I have ever come across, but we do have a ban here, in all schools. Schools differ in how they have implemented it. Some have put in special lockers. Some just say they need to be off and out of sight in the bag.

But one child needing a device for specific medical reasons doesn’t mean they can’t be banned or that every child should be allowed one - it just means this child would have an exception, like some children have a medical need to be allowed out to the toilet at any time, or to exit the classroom during episodes of sensory overload, for example.

Sadly most children do have them so your vision of her walking home chatting is probably not going to happen. It would be nice if that was to happen but it just doesn’t and then you end up caving as they are the only ones that do not have smart phones

I think they do both on the walk/train/bus home - chat, talk, mess about and play online games with each other or others and go on snapchat. That's my experience anyway, and it didn't kick in until year 8/9 as I wouldn't let them have snapshcat until they were 13.

The problem of course is if/when it stops being good-natured and there's nasty words said or a fallout. My only solution has been to step in when that happens and make them leave their phones downstaors in the evening so they get a break.

I dont really think 12+ year old are 'playing outside'. Also , this only works if no one else has a phone and unfortunately they do so its more.... standing alone outside?

Isn't it likely that a lot of kids that age inherit their parents or older sibling cast-off old smartphones, because overall, that's what the adult population tends to use? Hence why people reach for the old tech drawer?

With the appropriate controls and conversations - isn't it better to learn how to use tech safely. I get you need to be "on it" as a parent, but you'd need to be "on it" anyway because they are tweens/teens and generally will have to navigate life's complexities.

Comments like these are tone deaf!

Eh no, the prices are no where near compatible. Smart phone PAYG smartphone €60 with €10 per month data and call package. So c. €180 over a year.

Basic PC €400, broadband €40+ a month depending on region. Add in all security applications etc that tend to be significantly cheaper on phones.So 880 +.

That is massive difference.

What gets me are those kids who bring a more modern phone to school than mine - iPhone 14

Mine have had smartphones since Year 5 due to a weekend hobby where they sometimes needed to get hold of me. As a result, they're sensible with them, don't have social media and aren't interested.

In their secondary, they use phones all the time in class, for photos of work, QR codes, AR etc.

I'm a teacher and I use them to check knowledge. My pupils can connect to me with their phones and I can send out class questions which they answer via their phone. It then displays various charts on the smart board to show what percentage of the class was right or wrong. They absolutely love it, and it's anonymous to them, so no laughing at each other for getting an answer wrong, and no picking on children who don't enjoy speaking up. I can see who pressed what, and who needs extra support.

There are so many benefits to tech in education.

Not even that much if it's a passed down phone, or a refurb /older model/ android one. Then pay as you go sims vary, cheapest we found was £6 a month for unlimited calls ,texts and 4GB of data. Low data also helps to control usage.

Just a basic laptop (odds of it lasting and coping with all the apps and websites are low ) is at least £200 , a basic desktop more. Then you need to pay for all the stuff to make it functional like office (there are workarounds), then security stuff/antivirus and being tech savvy enough to sort it all out.

Then add the ipad, the music stuff, printer etc... and we're talking quite a lot of money and devices . Never mind the money, some people don't even have the space for all that. Add in extra kids that all need to do homework and it's even more money , arguments/stress.

Can't blame people for taking the easy(practical and financially valid) way out.

That's just daft really, especially given the state of them after just a few months.

Seem to be a lot of people with unreasonable expectations of children here. They don’t need smartphones, but would you be without yours? Seems double standards really.

I also suspect the ones saying “they don’t need one” possibly only have young/no children. A great way to isolate your teenager is to not let them have a smartphone. Everything is organised via WhatsApp/Instagram etc - even the school student leadership team have a chat group on their phones to organise who is doing what for fundraising etc.

Everyone saying having a phone is antisocial, this is not our experience. It has allowed my teen to organise her social life.