To not get the hate thrown at EVs?

[EngineStart]

We have an EV. We didn’t get it for environmental reasons, we got it because I have access to an EV lease scheme via work and it was the most cost effective way for us to get a new car. I don’t think I’m morally superior for having one. It serves us well, is nice to drive, and cheaper (for us) than running a petrol car.

What I don’t get is the visceral hatred some people have for them. I understand they aren’t for everyone, there are definite logistical challenges with on-street parking and long journeys particularly. However, I expect range and logistics to improve as time goes on. I also get that some car fans might find them a bit sanitised. But I don’t really get why some people are so viciously against them?

AIBU?

But what about charging at your destination? I live 300 miles from my hometown. None of my potential hosts have both a car and a driveway. It would be a logistical nightmare, especially as my solo trips are usually just over night.

What do people do who are visiting friends? Do they ask their hosts to unplug so that they can charge? What about paying for the electricity?

I don’t hate EVs. Just pointing out that there’s more inconvenience than just having to break a long journey to charge.

I 100% get that. My personal car is so old, it stinks of diesel. I can't afford a new car. My husbands is through work. But it still doesn't make sense why people go out of their way to pick fault with them or just be plain nasty!

I have never seen that. The only time I’ve had to wait is at a device station where there is only one charger. But there is a back of them one minute from there, so I didn’t have to wait, I chose to.

I am.

EVs are between 80 and 100 times less likely to catch fire than a diesel or petrol car... Depending on which data / studies you look at.

Misinformation.

Child mining in central Africa is for cobalt, not lithium. Most EV manufacturers have phased out the use of cobalt in batteries, partly because of cost but also because of the political optics. Recent vehicle batteries are lithium iron phosphate, which contain no cobalt. Oil refining does use cobalt, however - not a lot, but it's there.

Over 50% of the world's lithium is produced in Australia. The next quarter is from Chile, and then China produces somewhere south of 14%.

While there is not a lot of battery metal recycling going on right now, that's mainly because there aren't a lot of batteries to recycle - car batteries last a lot longer than people thought they would, and for recent EVs they'll outlast the chassis. When we reach a point where a lot of vehicles are being retired, 90% of the metals will be recyclable, and a nascent industry and market is emergint to capitalise on it.

Batteries for electric vehicles require about 200kg of minerals to manufacture, 90% of which will be recycled. ICE cars, over their lifetimes, require 34 tonnes of petrol to be extracted, 100% of which will end up in the atmosphere.

They aren't the holy grail as once thought but will suit many buyers like you OP. Older retired people with driveways for instance may prefer an electric car when it comes to buying new as they have the space and time (to charge) and will only do local short journeys. However, used electric car values have dropped significantly as people do not went to take on the expense of an out of warranty electric car. I don't think petrol is going anywhere for a long time and many car manufacturers are now looking at alternative fuel (hydrogen for instance). Business will always win the day and if the demand is not there for electric, car manufacturers will not bow down to government pressure.

We should keep our cars for longer. Cars nowadays are better built than ever before and there is no need to trade up every 3 years. We should all be keeping our cars for longer if we want to do something for the environment - over consumerism is the problem.

Misinformation.

Child mining is for cobalt, not lithium. Recent EV batteries don't use cobalt.

Over 50% of the world's lithium is mined in Australia, a further 25% from Chile, and 14% from China. Most of the world's reserves (for future extraction) are in the Americas and Australia.

If you're worried about the damage mining causes to innocent people that live in the area, take a look at the impact of mining oil. (spoiler: respiratory conditions and cancer, mainly affecting children).

What is the hard evidence for Russia?

I've had a couple of EV cars. Dh has one and about to get a new one. Dd has an EV too. So all three adults in our house have EVs.

In real life I've not had anyone show hatred of them. Some have been curious, especially early in. Some had stated thoughts on battery life, range, etc and we have told them our experience as part of the conversation. Some have said they wouldn't want one just yet. But no one has shown hatred, certainly not visceral hatred, in our hearing.

If you go on some social media you will read it, I suspect. Social media brings out all sorts of people who appear to have very OTT opinions on pretty much every topic, ime. I take most of it with a pinch of salt and scroll in by,

I find these kind of comments very ignorant tbh. Like other types of cars EV battery size and range varies a lot, with many now having much further ranges. Advances are made if this with every new car that comes out,

Yes, at present prices are dearer, but they are definitely coming down and the price of some second hand models are good. The more they are bought, the more prices will reduce,

It's mostly because they're being forced on us, and we don't like being told what to do, especially by our corrupt and useless government.

Loving the EV bingo here though,

Low range in them all
Take hours to charge, even with rapid charge
Worst for the environment than an ICE vehicle
EVs catching fire and blowing up easily and regularly
No noise, totally silent so never heard
No chargers working anywhere and massive queues for them all the time
Can't resell them
Can't be moved if broken down
Haven't improved since they came out - EVs of their infrastructure

All are misinformation

yes but Twitter??? I mean you can find someone who hates just about anything on there

I agree with the other poster who said about how diesels were touted as being environmentally friendly then weren’t, I do not think electric is the future for a lot of the reasons stated. I live rurally and work in community nursing covering a wide rural area, there are next to no public chargers, I do not have a drive and couldn’t afford an electric with a big enough boot for all my nursing equipment.

I personally think synthetic fuel will be a thing and agree that most people are angered due to the feeling of being forced into having to own one.

I don't think it's ridiculous to moan about the charging on long journeys, personally, I do a 5 hour trip multiple times a year. The last thing I want to do is stop to charge. I don't want to check where charging spots are. I'm literally in to pee, grab coffee, fuel up, go.

There are indeed huge issues with buying from a country with such a poor human rights record. We buy a lot from China and I think it’s awful just how much manufacturing we outsource.

In terms of EV battery production, you are right that it’s not an environmentally friendly process. Production of any vehicle isn’t.

The most environmentally friendly option for cars is battery manufactured in Scandinavia using renewable energy. The production carbon footprint is on a par with ICE production then. EV cars with Chinese produced batteries are indeed higher footprint than ICE. However, this changes over the miles and it isn’t long before the carbon footprint evens up and then drops lower than ICE. More quickly if the electric used is from renewables.

So the least carbon footprint is a Scandinavian manufactured EV, driven on renewable created electricity, but over all EVs are lower carbon, if you look at the longer picture, including the lithium issue.

The only zero carbon choice is walking everywhere wearing homemade natural fibre shoes (wearing a hair shirt and eating the weeds that grow by the side of the road). All travel has an environmental cost and if you are using a car regularly an EV is the lowest carbon if you look at it from production to end of use, but it’s certainly not zero carbon.

We're in the same position. We have no means of charging at home and the nearest chargers (in a town a good few miles away) are 85p/kWh. A supermarket has them at a lower cost but I've noticed on recent trips there's been a queue for them. If the infrastructure doesn't keep pace with the numbers buying EVs then presumably those queues will get longer.

But I can understand why people who can charge at home overnight at 7p/kWh might be fans.

You'd think, wouldn't you.
And IRL that's usually the case, apart from the odd OTT type person.

On social media, however - the most vocal seem to be the anti EV groups, usually male ime.

No. Seriously. My non petrol head DSis is literally angry with my choice of car and goes out of her way to argue with me about it. I have to very skill fully swerve the attacks and distract her with other topics of conversation or she goes on and on in a very angry way. It’s bizarre. I’ve also had random people approach me when I’m charging. Some are just lovely and curious, others can’t wait to tell me why my choice is wrong. 🤷‍♀️

Yeah, that's what we do.
Pull up, plug in, go to the toilet, have a drink and sometimes a snack, then go.
Modern EVs can charge very quickly with the super rapid chargers.
And we rarely have to queue these days, esp at larger service starting where there are new banks of chargers appearing regularly.

Even pre EV we would stop and have a small break mid long journey, it's safer generally to take a break after a couple of hours driving.

Agree about lower road tax. Should be higher for all heavier vehicles.

EVs that cost more than £40k pay road tax.
It's not £0 for all EVs.

Misinformation.

50% of the world's lithium comes from Australia, 25% from Chile, and 14% from China.

There is no evidence of child labour used in lithium mining, and neither does lithium come from central Africa. You're thinking cobalt, which has largely been eliminated from car batteries. It's still used in oil refining, however.

I just worry about buying one in the future. We tend to buy cars that are around 8-10 years old.
This is around the time a new battery would be needed so would then make it unaffordable for us.
Also, we live rurally - work in a tiny school with parking in a nearby church car park (no chargers) and on a farm.
Rent our home and can't imagine LL wanting to put a charging point in or affording to ourselves.

My parents have an EV and it's fab! They also have solar panels so charge it for free.

They've been all over the UK visiting friends, and yes it does involve a little bit of planning on where to charge it when on long runs, but after a year of use they'd never go back to petrol.

Most towns are getting better for charging them, so it's definitely something I'd consider.

It's not just mid-journey charging that's an issue, though. What about charging at your destination or at your home address?

If you don't have your own charger, or off-road parking, it can still be really difficult to find a public charger in many parts of the country. I could drive to the nearest big town and find loads of chargers, but that's 40 minutes out of my way which is a bit ridiculous, really.