To not get the hate thrown at EVs?

[EngineStart]

We have an EV. We didn’t get it for environmental reasons, we got it because I have access to an EV lease scheme via work and it was the most cost effective way for us to get a new car. I don’t think I’m morally superior for having one. It serves us well, is nice to drive, and cheaper (for us) than running a petrol car.

What I don’t get is the visceral hatred some people have for them. I understand they aren’t for everyone, there are definite logistical challenges with on-street parking and long journeys particularly. However, I expect range and logistics to improve as time goes on. I also get that some car fans might find them a bit sanitised. But I don’t really get why some people are so viciously against them?

AIBU?

We do need to be less reliant on oil and gas. We are going to reach peak oil at some point any way, even if you don’t care about climate (and thus societal) breakdown. We have the technology to do a lot without travelling.

Yeah, imagine a world where the air is fresher, people are more active and transport is sustainable, or at least more so.

The horror.

The regenerative braking is interesting, but it will never recover all of the energy. You seem to imply you beat the laws of thermodynamics there. The only way you could possibly get more energy back than you put in is if it is downhill, and then you would pay the price on the way back !

I think the regen on mine works in conjuction with the satnav, So for example when the car comes up to a roundabout the regen kicks in to slow it down. I didn't use the brakes much in an ICE car, but now I use them hardly at all, the vast majority of braking is done through regen. That does mean the brakes and pads get less use, I am unsure whether this is actually good for them or not, as although there is less wear, they also get a lot more corroded.

Yeah,maybe check your privilege. Poor people in villages in our leafy home county would be trapped. No trains no buses.

We do need better public transport. EVs won’t be the solution, yet, for some. But actually, jointly, we do all need to cut consumption. Especially the richest 10%.

These should exist also I agree it’s a problem in rural areas.

There are many issues which cause me to dislike EVs. Primarily...

A general dislike is that, because they weigh significantly more than equivalent ICE vehicles, they do more damage to the roads. In case you hadn't noticed, that's already a problem with the lack of investment, and EVs are just making it worse.

Then there's the issue that pretty much any impact makes it a write-off, because most garages can't take the risk that the battery's been compromised and has become a fire/explosion hazard. That means pretty much any accident results in a battery replacement, which is a huge proportion of the car's insured value. I can accept that kind of thing in a 15 year old shitbox, not a 0-5 year old car that cost me a small fortune.

I hate modern cars in general, with the march towards everything-is-a-screen and drive-by-wire. I enjoy driving...I want a car in which I'm in control, that just has a wheel in each corner, one in front of me, brakes and something that makes it go. I want to have direct control over everything that it does, not to have to ask a computer to interpret my input and then have it instruct the physical bits to move accordingly. I want my interaction with the car to be based on direct physics, without a computer in the middle (I'm a programmer, and a significant lump of this is probably due to the fact that I trust other people's code even less than my own, especially if it's kept secret).

I especially don't want such a car to have firmware updates over the air which, without my approval, can significantly change the operation of the car.

I'm definitely not against more environmentally-friendly methods of make-go, I just don't think EVs are it. I'd very much rather sit in hope that somebody manages to make hydrogen-combustion engines commercially competitive.

I live rurally. I don't disagree that public transport in places is shit, but the answer to that is... better public transport.

Not continuing to use unsustainable transport options.

I'm not against EV's as a thing. I think if you live in a town/city and have multiple cars and parking for them then the second, usually smaller, car that does maybe the school runs, supermarket shop and a local commute being an EV makes perfect sense in a lot of scenarios. I think what gets my goat about the EV movement is when you suggest that they don't work for you mainly due to infrastructure and range it's always picked apart into exactly how many long journeys you do like it's just not a problem.

For me, I have a local commute (which I try to cycle in nice weather anyway) and so for 85% of my driving an EV would actually be ideal, however I probably have fortnightly trips in excess of 3-400 mile round trips for both my hobby and my semi volunteer side hustle as a sports official. It is on these long journeys where i'm often trying to do the 4 hours from Manchester, or the 6 hours from Scotland, or the 5 hours from Cardiff late on a Sunday night, after a few hours there, with work the next morning. I tend to do these drives with either no stop or a quick wee (having pre stocked up on drinks and snacks) and I definitely wouldn't stop for fuel on a motorway. I can quickly grab fuel in 3 minutes at the location and then get on my way. My time on these long journeys is valuable to me. I don't want to pull up at an expensive motorway location and spend 30 minutes there, sorry. And because of the nature of the activities, public charging where you get charged for blocking the space once you've charged means I can't park up for the day at the location either because I can't really come out and move it. At the moment that hassle vs the status quo is absolutely enough for that to be a deal breaker for me. I don't need people to decide that that shouldn't be a barrier for me and preach to me about it.

That's before you get to the fact that for a lot of manufacturers (not all I do admit) when they designed perfectly nice looking ICE vehicles, I can only assume they suddenly developed serious Covid when they designed the EV's based on the lack of taste. I want to drive a car not the starship enterprise, and definitely don't want a small hatchback or a Schoolrun Utility Vehicle which also seem to be the EV du jour!

I think I lump EV drivers in with triathletes and vegans in the 'how do you know when someone is an XYZ? Don't worry they will tell you within 8 seconds' memes which is possibly a bit unfair as again not all are preachy, but it does tend to attract a certain 'type' more than people preach about a 3l V6...

The top 10% can't afford a vaguely-decent EV these days (at least, not without going into debt). Top 5%, maybe.

So fund public transport properly and built safe active travel routes.

I think the all day parking/charging thing needs a solution. It can be quite impractical.

Just for your info, there are EVs that can do over 300 miles now and charging times have come right down. They will keep getting better. You never know, you might change your mind. The acceleration is quite good fun!!

Not true.

Loads of people are going into debt for ICEVs anyway, there's nothing new there.

Really? Earning £59k/year, with the current cost of living, and can drop half of that for a basic EV?

Colour me unconvinced. I earn more than that, and I know I couldn't do it without borrowing - and neither could most of the people I know who're in my position.

Half of £59k is what the most popular ICE cars currently sold in the UK cost (even a Golf isn't cheap these days). People are already paying that sort of money for a petrol/diesel car, even if that means leasing or finance.

Politely this is exactly my point. Whenever you say it’s not for you someone comes along to present a counter argument, without considering that you maybe have considered that but you’ve tried to summarise why it doesn’t suit you for brevity. Some top of the range mercs / polestars will on paper do 450 miles, but if you are a private buyer they aren’t realistic propositions. We actually looked briefly at a Polestar when I replaced the most recent car (last time we wrote off all EVs completely on range) but all the pricing and blurb on the website was priced in BIK!!! They clearly didn’t even consider that a Joe Public would buy one, all about the low company car tax rates. Then find one that’s a true estate (not an SUV as they don’t have rhe boot length and height to the back unless you go to the super-big). How much does that published range come down in the freezing in the Alps, (or even just the cold in the UK). Cruising on the continent is over 80mph, and when you are covering those distances doing 75 vs 56 tucked in behind a lorry is going to add time on top of charging. How many EV claimed mileage is at that speed vs low speed/even 56mph.

The acceleration is pretty good in a 310bhp petrol that doesn’t weigh 2.3 tonnes…

Just like always different cars suit different needs and not everyone suits a full EV. You wouldn’t get someone replying to a post saying that a fiat 500 wouldn’t suit them because they had a big dog with ‘but you could get 2 Terriers in one of the latest models of Fiesta, maybe you’ll come round to small cars one day.

Our EV cost 13,000. Our next will be 18,000. Most people use finance. You could buy ours that we are part exchanging for 7,000. They keep getting cheaper for more range and faster charging, but it’s definitely affordable for the top 10% earners. My point, though, was actually a general need to cut carbon, with the richest in the world being the most responsible.

Just debunking the idea that EVs can’t do long journeys or take ages charging. This isn’t true with the newer models. It essentially comes down to values.

Yes. And used EVs are a much more cost effective option. The cost issue isn’t really a thing, unless you usually spend a couple of grand on an old banger.

EngineStart · 07/04/2024 15:08
SoupDragon · 07/04/2024 15:04

"visceral hatred" ? "viciously against them"? Really?
**
Yes, go on Twitter - lots of people who actually hate them, not just they don’t want one, no one should have them.”

There’s your answer. Avoid twitter posts about EVs.

So battery warranty is 7 years.
I recently bought a 10 year old car for £9k. It has relatively low mileage and does what I need it to well.
I live rurally, travel approximately 7 miles to work and need to tow a couple of times a month.
If a new battery is going to be nearly as much as the car it will be unaffordable for me.
I rent - as I said upthread, my landlord is unlikely to pay to put in a charging point. We actually have 5 cars parked at home most evenings so one is unlikely to be enough.
Public transport is 1 bus a day Mon - Fri to the nearest city only - no return journey, not in the right direction for myself or my husband.