To not get the hate thrown at EVs?

[EngineStart]

We have an EV. We didn’t get it for environmental reasons, we got it because I have access to an EV lease scheme via work and it was the most cost effective way for us to get a new car. I don’t think I’m morally superior for having one. It serves us well, is nice to drive, and cheaper (for us) than running a petrol car.

What I don’t get is the visceral hatred some people have for them. I understand they aren’t for everyone, there are definite logistical challenges with on-street parking and long journeys particularly. However, I expect range and logistics to improve as time goes on. I also get that some car fans might find them a bit sanitised. But I don’t really get why some people are so viciously against them?

AIBU?

As I say, Scotland has 4,000 charging points across the country, 2,518 of them part of ChargePlace Scotland, and Scottish Government wants that increased to 6,000 - but wants the increase to come from private charging networks.

If that actually happens well above half of Scotland's charging points will be on private charging networks. I imagine that will make the system more complicated.

We are about to upgrade to a newer used EV with a longer range and the warranty still stands. Kia have a very long warranty.

ours would be 5000-7000 with 130 mile range but I don’t know if the battery is still under warranty. Probably not as it’s quite old but still holding its charge as it was.

It’s something to look into I guess.

That’s true. Unless they stipulate some parameters. I think now all new chargers have to have contactless payment here, but before it was all different apps. It will get better. In the few years we have had an EV it’s got so much better already.

My plug in hybrid has 30 miles range in winter and 40+ in summer. I can eek 45 out of it by going slowly.

I covers probably 95% of the trips I do on electric.

I do sometimes wish it had a tiny bit more range, say 50 miles. But my guess is that if it did then I would wish it had a tiny bit more range, say 60 miles.

Even a hybrid with a 20 miles range would still cover much more than 50% of car trips taken in the UK, because the majority of car journeys are really short.

I don't think they will end up needing to ban them, because the manufacturers are switching over. It will be a de facto ban via loss of production. And because volume will decrease, cost of maintenance of ICE will become that much more expensive which will feedback into even lower volumes.

@Pinkfluffypencilcase good question- I don't know either but am interested in finding out

It seems that as of Jan 2024, the average price for a replacement EV battery is approx £7,235, but obviously this varies significantly depending on the model. The statistic is from an EV garage and service centre, so I can't attest to how accurate that is (though can't see why they would be overinflating estimates if they are trying to attract EV customers).

At that price you could buy a decent second hand petrol car, get it serviced and still have a good chunk of change left over. So nowhere near what many would consider the more affordable end of the market.

Hopefully, improvements with the tech will bring the prices down. Current costs mean that an EV is unaffordable for me (and I suspect many others). I am also concerned that the push to invest public funds in to EVs may divert investment away from public transport.

@Saintmariesleuth i hadn’t thought about funds being diverted away from public transport. Very likely.
Given that govt spends on smart motorway and not repairing potholes!

@Pinkfluffypencilcase I have a second hand EV and the manufacturer battery warranty transferred to me, providing I have it serviced at a main dealer (as did the previous owner). I have it on pcp deliberately as l then get a guaranteed value for the car.

That sounds sensible. So much to consider!

@Sedonasunrises that's good to hear that the battery warranty can be transferred between owners.

How long is your battery predicted to last? Will the cost of purchasing a replacement battery be exclusively your responsibility?

I think that they ought to play a scale as they accelerate, like electric trains in Austria do:

I love that idea!!

Horrendous damage to people and wildlife done by lithium mining in Chile:

You'll be devastated when you hear what oil extraction has done to the Ogoni Delta then 🙄

@Saintmariesleuth the battery warranty is 7 years. The car is 2 years old and the pcp runs for 4 years meaning I’ll still be in battery warranty when I can trade the car in for its minimum guaranteed value. Lots of people I know with EVs do pcp not buy outright doe this reason.

An advantage not mentioned is that I’ve really adapted my driving style with the EV to be much smoother and more careful. The car charges with regenerative braking, meaning if you take your foot off the accelerator, the car immediately starts to brake. This energy charges the battery. It means I’m more careful to anticipate stopping at junctions etc so I can take advantage of the extra range. A 10 mile journey I regularly take with a few junctions, roundabouts and changes in speed limit can mean I lose no range as the regenerative braking charges the battery enough.

I agree with this. BEVs were developed to save the car industry, not to save the planet. They're an improvement upon ICEVs but the solution for 90% of the population is public transport and active travel.

Yes I agree too with EV being a sticking plaster.

Ive been trying to see Ford’s EV offering. And it’s all vans or e Mach. No small pay cars yet.

Less travel, bike, foot and public transport are better, but if you have to travel by car, EVs are the better option. We need to wean ourselves off oil and gas. Pronto. EVs are just part of the solution though, I agree.

EV are not all they're cracked up to be. They might be less polluting at the point of use but what about materials used in the manufacture esp lithium?
They are much heavier than most petrol/diesel cars so if you think potholes are bad now.....
If whole streets had charging points which were in use together sub stations couldn't cope.
New housing estates that are gas free have different spec electric cabling to those which have gas. So, again lack of capacity. The National Grid couldn't cope with the demand either.
Car dealers have been given quotas to reach regarding electric car sales and are fined if those targets are not reached.
Prices for new EVs are so high compared with petrol.
Second hand EV values are dropping because technology is developing so quickly, who wants to buy an obsolete car?
Each to their own, but don't believe they are a better option.

If you read the thread lots of this has been tackled already and debunked. I’ll do the first one but leave you to look up the rest if you don’t mind.

At point of production, EVs are either on a par or worse than ICE in terms of carbon footprint. On a par if the batteries are made in Scandinavia using renewables, worse if made in China using coal power.

From that point onwards, EVs have a much lower carbon footprint and even taking into account Lithium mining and battery recycling etc, even the coal powered battery EVs over take ICE cars in terms of carbon footprint in a relatively short space of time.

So, less travel, walking, cycling and public (ground level) transport are much better. But if you have to travel by car, EVs have a lower carbon footprint over the lifespan. They also don’t cause additional health problems by polluting the air.

Im not saying this to convince you to buy one, btw, just want to clarify that you have been misinformed.

Many people are petrol heads which is why we are in this mess now.

We're not petrol heads. We don''t care what propels the (one) vehicle we use. It just has to work for us, and for all the reasons I've previously listed, including cost, charging and range, electric cars don't.

There are many people in that position.

Sounds like people want to hark back to pre industrial times, or just after the industrial revolution when all there was was trains (which are long since gone from most towns and villages)

That’s why investment in public transport is key. It was shocking to read that under Tories 90pc of bus routes have gone.

Public transport has to be a viable alternative.

Hardly. Would you say that Utrecht is pre-industrial? It's thriving with few cars.