To have expected my daughters to be flower girls

[Notmotherofflowergirls]

Just created an account for people to pile on to me and tell me I am an idiot. I don’t think I can tell my real friends.
I am inwardly cringing!
My brother is getting married in 3 months time to a woman with no nieces or nephews.
My mother and I naturally assumed that my two girls 4 and 6 would be the flower girls. There are no other kids in the family although stepdad has grandchildren.
My mother was feeling left out of all the planning. DB was uncommunicative about the plans and always referred us to SiL and when my mum asked to contribute she was batted away.
Finally Mum insisted that she would buy the flower girl dresses and finally brother agreed. So on Wednesday SiL posted an invoice for three flower girl dresses from a Shop in Dublin. She included a nice note saying that she mustn’t feel obliged to pay.
My mum asked who the third dress was for: it turns out all three are for her cousin’s girls.
Brother came round and said that they will be only kids at wedding.
My brother was asked point blank if he didn’t want his nieces there and all he could say was he would speak with SiL. He did look sheepish.
My dad died and while my mum has not remarried she has been with her partner for 9 years. His kids are not invited. My stepdad isn’t going and is angry that my mum has been made to feel so upset.
I feel as if I have been kicked in the guts. My mum keeps bursting into tears.
My DH says he’s ongoing either Have we overstepped? Would anyone else have made the same assumption?

OP’s DDs aren’t even invited!

I agree with you, match their effort and no more.

I wouldn’t have expected it but I also don’t think your Mum should be paying for the flower girl dresses

I think that clear communication might be key here :

Mum assumed...,

It isn't right that she should still pay...

We are incredibly hurt...

This is largely a consequence of poor communication.

That said, you can have feelings but both you and DH need to suck it up and both attend the wedding, because their day isn't about you, like two rational adults.

Well, I assume she was only offering on the unspoken assumption it was the OP’s children who were going to be wearing them! And obviously the bride didn’t get that memo.

You’re right I did miss the update! I take back my disagreement 😂

Oh, and now husband is going to sit home and pout and the OP can attend the wedding solo with an appropriately martyred air

Someone has to stay home to look after the children who are not invited .
I think it is very bad behaviour by the Bride and Groom and can understand completely why OP is upset. Her mother is being very generous still paying for the dresses when her own grandchildren aren't even invited.
I can't believe the brother didn't know that his mother was assuming his nieces would be flower girls, if not before at least when she offered to buy the dresses.
And although I think it was wrong to assume the nieces would be flower girls it's not unreasonable to expect it or unusual for flower girls and bridesmaids to be a close relative on the Grooms side. My daughter was flower girl at my brother's wedding.

@SabreIsMyFave Did you fully read the original post?
The OP and her mum assumed her two daughters would be flower girls (3 months before the wedding, when it had never been mentioned previously as a thing).
They only found out their assumption was wrong when mum, after insisting in paying for FG dresses got a bill for 3 dresses for different kids, including note from bride saying she should not feel obligated to cover it - bride obviously knew what assumption had been made when offer to pay came in and reasonably expected a change of mind from OP’s mum re payment.

When enquiries made with groom re who extra flower girl was he confirmed his nieces were not FGs and in fact were not even invited.

So, she can’t just take kids to wedding as normal guests cos they are not invited in any capacity.

People are right to say shouldn’t have assumed her girls would be the flower girls. If they hadn’t been asked earlier than 3 months before wedding date then they are not in the plan and that’s OK. Clearly B & G have chosen to keep groom’s family at arm’s length for some reason. There is no need to include stepdad's (adult?) children, and this can’t really be seen as causing any offence.

It is a bit crap to exclude the OP’s children. They are groom’s only nieces/nephews. But this is only crappy because they ARE including other children - the 3 flower girls are going. If if was a totally child free wedding it would be OK to exclude OP’s daughters.

I would go with my husband if I was the OP, just to maintain relationship with brother. If she chooses not to go the relationship will be damaged beyond repair. I may not stay for the full shindig, would probably evacuate after meal pleading childcare to avoid drink being taken and harsh words spoken if I felt as upset as the OP does.

Similarly one of the things that’s astonished me since being on MN is how easy it is to push out the male side of the family

Wedding - it’s the bride’s family that take precedence
Baby born - wife only wants her family to visit
Christmas - need to go to wife’s family

You see it all the time on threads and then people wonder why their in laws don’t have much of a relationship with them. Probably because they were not given the chance

We are a predominantly female family (ie female cousins and sisters) but most are married or have partners and family dynamics are pretty balanced

Both families equally involved in all aspects of family celebrations. Nobody has an issue with their MIL and the parents all get on with their parental in law counterpart

Different world sometimes reading these and sad that people are quite happy to ruin relationships so easily

Sorry, missed update from OP.

I hope no one in OPs family wants to have a relationship with the new couple snd their future children because that is where this mad attack on the future SIL ends up.

OP does not seem to have much of a relationship with her brother. Nor does he care about the mother”s boyfriend’s kids. This is the issue. He didn’t choose you lot to come to the wedding. Why blame her.?

YABU to 'assume' your dds were going to be flower girls

Your mother was being extremely odd to offer to pay for flower girl dresses without even having a conversation about who (if anyone) was going to be the flower girls. I mean, that is just odd.

Your Mum's partner is being childish in 'not going'. It is nice that you get on with your "step-siblings that aren't quite step siblings" , and, if you had the capacity to invite each other to weddings, that's nice, but there is no 'expectation' that adults whose parents meet and start to live with each other once they are already adult, have to invite the new partner's adult dc to their family events. They aren't actually family, however nice it is that you all get on. Weddings are expensive and each couple have to make their own criteria as to who to invite.

It seems strange to just not have been having chats with your db and dsil to be about their plans over time. So this suggests that you and your brother aren't particularly close and he isn't particularly close to his nieces. So if it is a child free wedding other than bridal party, then perhaps he doesn't feel strongly enough about it to make an exception for his nieces - even though many of us probably would.

I hope no one in OPs family wants to have a relationship with the new couple snd their future children because that is where this mad attack on the future SIL ends up.

id be ok with that if it was my family, the SIL has made her feelings about her new in-laws very clear through her behaviour.

Actually I think it's wrong to exclude the stepdad's adult kids if they're close enough to have attended each other's weddings. But fair enough to exclude OP's children. That's fair and logical, the groom's parents and siblings only. No nephews and nieces.

In a small wedding (if it is!) headcount matters. The bride may have 'minor' relatives, but no direct siblings so fair enough to take their places. As opposed to the groom's 4 siblings (and presumably their spouses). Including nephews and nieces is a step too far!

Flower girls are a ridiculous assumption they come from the bride's side and while it would be 'nice' to include it's not mandatory. OP didn't say whether her kids were flower girls for all the other weddings.

Also @Cheeseychangeofname don't blame the SIL. It's the groom responsible for his side of the family!

Of course it is.

You generally wait till you're asked, rather than forcing the issue by offering to pay for dresses you haven't actually been told are needed.

Also @Cheeseychangeofname don't blame the SIL. It's the groom responsible for his side of the family

Yes they are but he should have noticed something was amiss and spoken to his future wife. His family should have asked why they'd been excluded to this extent and he should have had that conversation with his fiancée. The SIL is very much in charge in all of this and it sits uncomfortably with me, as it would if it were a BIL.

Oh shit. I misread. So the OP's daughters aren't even invited! OP said the brother had said 'they will be only kids at wedding' ... (meaning his wife-to-be's cousins 3 children!) And I read it as the OP's DDs would just be going as regular kids and not bridesmaids/flower girls. (Like the bride's cousins children.)

MY BAD, sorry. I didn't realise they were not even going! Sorry @Notmotherofflowergirls So in that case, yeah fuck it, don't go!!!

@redalex261 thank you too for alerting me to my fluff-up!

Someone has to stay home to look after the children who are not invited

They have several months to sort out a babysitter. Perhaps stepdad can watch the girls as he's apparently sitting home pouting as well?

But I do agree that when people decide that they want a childfree wedding then they need to accept that some people will not be able to attend.

I may not stay for the full shindig, would probably evacuate after meal
It's an awkward situation but a dirty protest seems a bit extreme.

@redalex261

I agree with some of your points- lots of assumptions made without clarifying with the bride and groom. We are also missing information on the size and timeline of the wedding which would help with context

But I agree it's unreasonable to invite some family children and then not OP's (as the groom's sister) and not to tell her ahead of time (plus leave her to find out the way she did)

I think the point about OPs mum's partner and his children, is that the family 'norm' is for them to invite each other. The bride and groom don't need to go along with this, but shouldn't be surprised that there are hurt feelings when it seems these people consider each other as close family

Similarly one of the things that’s astonished me since being on MN is how easy it is to push out the male side of the family

Wedding - it’s the bride’s family that take precedence
Baby born - wife only wants her family to visit
Christmas - need to go to wife’s family

You see it all the time on threads and then people wonder why their in laws don’t have much of a relationship with them. Probably because they were not given the chance

Yep. And the women of Mumsnet generally promote this thinking... until of course a woman outside of the family has the nerve to prioritise her side.

I agree with your presumptions.

Flower girls 💐 or bridesmaids 💐 I always thought were chosen from both sides of the family as a precursor of a good relationship with the new future family.
If the Bride hasn't got a good relationship with your kids or you or hasn't even thought about you, it's not a very good start.

Your mum should say sorry I presumed I was paying for my own grand daughters' dresses as flower girls? Is this not the case?

I would broach the subject now instead of being a big grudge at the wedding.

Your brother needs to put on his political pants and sort this out from the off for his own future happiness.

Good luck. 🤔

My DH is angry and is staying home with our girls
Why is he so angry? Because his kids aren't invited? It's hardly his business who they choose to invite.

"Hilarious to have offered to buy flower girl dresses and then discover different children are going to be wearing them"

It's not 'hilarious' though. It's shitty behaviour from B&G. People are quick to complain when their family shows no interest in their lives, but it's behaviour which excludes them in the first place, which can contribute to lack of interest down the line.

Weddings are one of those occasions which illustrate the regard in which a person holds their families and friends - B is setting out her stall that her family matters and Groom's doesn't. And he's allowing it, which means he doesn't give a shit about his mum or sister either. Shameful behaviour,

It's not totally weird to assume the Groom's only nieces will be flower girls.

Reading between the likes you don't like this woman, come across over bearing and demanding and the woman is trying to put some distance between yourself and her.Has she even meet the half siblings?

Choosing the flower girls is fine, the bride may be very close to her cousin and her cousin's daughters. Flower girls typically come from the bride's side, just like the bridesmaids.

Not inviting the nieces is shitty though.