To have expected my daughters to be flower girls

[Notmotherofflowergirls]

Just created an account for people to pile on to me and tell me I am an idiot. I don’t think I can tell my real friends.
I am inwardly cringing!
My brother is getting married in 3 months time to a woman with no nieces or nephews.
My mother and I naturally assumed that my two girls 4 and 6 would be the flower girls. There are no other kids in the family although stepdad has grandchildren.
My mother was feeling left out of all the planning. DB was uncommunicative about the plans and always referred us to SiL and when my mum asked to contribute she was batted away.
Finally Mum insisted that she would buy the flower girl dresses and finally brother agreed. So on Wednesday SiL posted an invoice for three flower girl dresses from a Shop in Dublin. She included a nice note saying that she mustn’t feel obliged to pay.
My mum asked who the third dress was for: it turns out all three are for her cousin’s girls.
Brother came round and said that they will be only kids at wedding.
My brother was asked point blank if he didn’t want his nieces there and all he could say was he would speak with SiL. He did look sheepish.
My dad died and while my mum has not remarried she has been with her partner for 9 years. His kids are not invited. My stepdad isn’t going and is angry that my mum has been made to feel so upset.
I feel as if I have been kicked in the guts. My mum keeps bursting into tears.
My DH says he’s ongoing either Have we overstepped? Would anyone else have made the same assumption?

Rude and mean? To have her own choice of flower girls at her own wedding? To pick children she is close to over some children that she has only known for the time she has been with her partner. That she clearly doesn’t see that often otherwise their mother would know about it.
How is she being rude, and who is she being mean to?

100% with DB's wife here, and I love that she has called her future MILs bluff on 'wanting to contribute to the wedding ' by sending an invoice for other children's dresses - she knows a bribe and offer with conditions when she sees it!.

You need to stop trying to shoehorn spurious family members into a wedding that isn't yours..the bride is not morally obliged to invite her partners mums boyfriend's children to this wedding .

I remain baffled as to why people have weddings anyway when they cause so much hassle, expense and stress. They are an attention seeking waste of money.

I'm a little surprised by some of the responses here. By how many people seem to just expect their own children to be part of a wedding party and really insert themselves into someone else's wedding plans. It's baffling to me, but clearly not u usual.

Someone upthread said it's a cardinal sin to assume or presume in the UK. It's not, but it is a bit silly. Let people have their wedding the way they want, it's not up to anyone else.

Sometimes though, you do things because it's tactful and oils the wheels of family relationships, not necessarily because you particularly want to do it. So you invite your only sister's dc to your wedding, even if you'd ideally prefer not to, because it hurts your sister if you exclude them and it doesn't really hurt you to let them come. And then your relationship with your sister remains strong. Or you don't and then your sister finds herself less inclined to be there for you in the future. Family relationships need effort put in from both sides, to thrive.

While I'm generally in favour of people having the wedding of their choice (especially when they are paying for it), they do have to weigh up the wider consequences of their choices.

It's okay to have child free weddings where you don't invite friends' children, but excluding your own siblings' dc is different, especially if other children are there.

No the surprising bit is the DB / Groom never actually spoke up and said its a child free wedding and the bridal party are.

Although I do think not inviting your own sisters kids is a bit mean.

It was misplaced. Any assumption is misplaced if it is incorrect. The only people positioned to choose who attends a wedding are the bride and groom. Any further politicking or entitlement are misplaced and threaten to spoil the day.

Why is the Sil bad and the brother simply weak?

What an odd stance.

Seriously. Child free weddings are commonplace (sometimes minus any bridal party). The OP needs to accept her kids haven't been chosen as bridal attendants but are not personally excluded from the day. She might not like it but there was no entitlement there.

How was it not misplaced when she didn’t think to ask in the first place who flower girls were?

Some posters seem to be ignoring that OP and her mum were not a part of the wedding planning whatsoever, were not asked to be a part of it for the read of things, made their own assumptions and conclusions about the wedding and the bride’s side when it is obvious neither of them, especially OP, are close enough to her to ask about details and OP herself couldn’t be bothered to contact the bride after her own brother told her to if she had questions.

This likely all could have been cleared up with a phone call from OP to the bride asking about details like her brother told her to or asking her brother upfront and clearly about flower girls since that is what they were so focused on. If she is as close to her brother as she says, she should know how he communicates or how little he does, if he is one who sees the wedding as a massive party with mainly his mates or is more family-oriented.

The assumptions that the bride is going out of her way to exclude them is ridiculous and says more about the posters saying this than her who likely left her fiancé to decide who HE wants at their wedding especially if she doesn’t know his side that well and she has consistently said that MIL didn’t need to pay for anything including the flower girl dresses that MIL insisted on on the invoice.

I do agree about thinking about consequences and doing things to not cause upset but that does also backfire depending on who you are doing it for.

It's very presumptuous anywhere to "presume" and very stupid to "assume".

He was invited. He's throwing a strop and refusing to go because his adult children aren't invited.

I find it odd that your mum felt left out of the wedding planning? Why would she be involved?

People have bizarre and unfair expectations when it comes to weddings.

In the nicest way.... let the poor couple have the day they want and try nose out

This.

They can have whatever wedding they like, but weddings are just 1 day. Family relations last a lifetime. Why would you unnecessarily upset family members when there is absolutely no need to?

What’s funny is that in the eyes of some posters, the bride is being controlling, but it’s not the controlling that’s the problem. The problem is it’s the wrong person doing it:

OP and her mother should be telling her brother what to do.

They and/or the brother should be telling the bride who is going to be in her own bridal party.

They’re selfish to be having their own wedding (that they’re paying for) the way they want, when it should be tailored to what OP/her mother/her stepfather want. In short, it’s selfish to plan your own wedding to your preference, and definitely not selfish to plan someone else’s to your preference.

Similarly, it’s fine to carry on insisting you get your way despite repeatedly being told ‘no’. The person who finally gives in and sends an invoice, along with a note stressing that you paying really isn’t required or expected, is a cheeky fucker because they didn’t read your mind and give you exactly what were expecting, yet failed to communicate in the first place.

It doesn’t matter if the brother doesn’t consider his ‘stepsiblings’ to be family, or isn’t close to them, OP does and is, and that’s what matters. At his wedding.

Why would family members get upset over their own misplaced assumptions? Why would family members throw strops over one day, and risk damaging their family relationships.
It's perfectly normal to have a child free wedding with the exception of the wedding party. It's not normal for grown adults to have tantrums that their assumptions weren't correct.

They can have whatever wedding they like, but weddings are just 1 day. Family relations last a lifetime. Why would you unnecessarily upset family members when there is absolutely no need to?

Indeed. Why would OP, her DH, DM, and DM's partner, do anything other than smile graciously and join DB and his fiancée in celebrating the wedding day they have chosen? Why disrupt the bridal couple with their manipulations and dramas? Something for OP and co to ponder.

OP and her mother would do well to heed this advice. Or is unnecessarily upsetting family members not a problem when the ones being upset are the bride and groom?

To pick children she is close to over some children that she has only known for the time she has been with her partner. That she clearly doesn’t see that often otherwise their mother would know about it.

The wider picture is that she may not know them now, but she is presumably hoping her marriage will last for life so they will be family for the next 50 years or so. My young cousin wasn't allowed to bring her serious boyfriend to her dad's second wedding and they're married with kids now. It's always awkward when the subject of the marriage comes up, it's not a day everybody can reminisce over together, and it didn't help my cousin's relationship with her stepmother one bit. Big mistake.

The irony of all this is that I bet the bride and groom had a conversation very early on in which they said, ‘Let’s pay for the whole thing ourselves. That way neither side of the family thinks they can have a say about the guest list or the menu or venue. And let’s keep all the details to ourselves so that no one sticks their oar in with their own opinions about how we should do things. It will all be lovely and grown-up and harmonious.’

I wouldn't have assumed that my children would have been flower girls (I think you should let this one go) but I would have assumed they would have been invited to the wedding and so I would be more upset about this. Trying to put myself in the bride's shoes- looking back I know that I was a bit of a Bridezilla- partly blamed on hormones as I unexpectedly became pregnant but I had some things going on (e.g. my Mum was not well) and I wanted to keep it at a level I felt was manageable and knew I would love and stop it exploding into something too big and so I did fend off some help from relatives even though I knew it was well meant. So I do understand why brides become control freaks and also why husbands-to-be let them be control freaks, and don't think you should judge the personality of a bride by how she behaves in the run up to her wedding. This said, we had immediate family children only (plus babes in arms) at our wedding but it wouldn't have occurred to me not to have my nieces or my husbands nephews at our wedding as I really wanted them both there! I can't blame you for being upset by that. Is it difficult for you to find a sitter for them for the day? If it genuinely is then I think you should speak to your brother and explain this and ask if they would reconsider. If you can find one though then I think for your brother's sake and for the sake of future relationships then I think you should still do it, suck it up on the day and know you have been the better person and then give your SIL a chance- she might turn out to be lovely once all the wedding etc. is out of the way and if she doesn't then that will come out in the wash at some point anyway I am afraid....

Sometimes though, you do things because it's tactful and oils the wheels of family relationships, not necessarily because you particularly want to do it.

While I agree with this, I would consider it things like going to a meal with family when you don't really feel like it, or similar. Not having children as flower girls because their mother and grandmother expect it. The bride may be very close to her cousin's children (I am to mine), which is why they have been chosen to be flower girls and that's perfectly ok. Why shouldn't they be?

She’ll be family with her cousins for the next 50 odd years too.

Not being close to her in laws doesn’t mean that marriage is at risk of not lasting. Lord, just read Mumsnet, plenty of women have only distant relationships with their in-laws, and there’s plenty wrongly being blamed for their husbands being LC/NC with their birth families.

The thing is there’s no evidence that the bride is being a control freak at all. It may very well be the brother that actively doesn’t want his family to have the level of involvement they’re after.

The bride could have had both her cousins children and the groom's nieces as flower girls. It would have smoothed the situation and not really caused any hardship to the b or g.
I do agree that it's the bride's right to choose her own attendants and if I was the OP, I'd feel a bit hurt but wouldn't make a fuss. It would say to me though, that neither b or g were interested in building closeness to my dc. Not asking them to the wedding at all, would reinforce that feeling tbh.

I suppose in the end, it comes down to absolutely having the right to do something but it not being the right thing to do in the long run. The wedding is one day but it's a day that sticks in the family memory.
The b&g are forming their own little family in getting married - shame to give the message of not valuing the other family units .

Exactly, so she would be wise to include them all rather than exclude the girls who will be her nieces. I think what you say is pertinent though in that the choices signal that the brother's fiancee is planning to have a distant relationship with her in-laws and the brother is happy to go along with it. I've been to weddings where the bridge and groom have fallen over themselves to make sure their families have a happy day - and it's been wonderful to see. It's very sad when the opposite happens.

100% this. ^