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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have expected my daughters to be flower girls

1000 replies

Notmotherofflowergirls · 06/04/2024 16:02

Just created an account for people to pile on to me and tell me I am an idiot. I don’t think I can tell my real friends.
I am inwardly cringing!
My brother is getting married in 3 months time to a woman with no nieces or nephews.
My mother and I naturally assumed that my two girls 4 and 6 would be the flower girls. There are no other kids in the family although stepdad has grandchildren.
My mother was feeling left out of all the planning. DB was uncommunicative about the plans and always referred us to SiL and when my mum asked to contribute she was batted away.
Finally Mum insisted that she would buy the flower girl dresses and finally brother agreed. So on Wednesday SiL posted an invoice for three flower girl dresses from a Shop in Dublin. She included a nice note saying that she mustn’t feel obliged to pay.
My mum asked who the third dress was for: it turns out all three are for her cousin’s girls.
Brother came round and said that they will be only kids at wedding.
My brother was asked point blank if he didn’t want his nieces there and all he could say was he would speak with SiL. He did look sheepish.
My dad died and while my mum has not remarried she has been with her partner for 9 years. His kids are not invited. My stepdad isn’t going and is angry that my mum has been made to feel so upset.
I feel as if I have been kicked in the guts. My mum keeps bursting into tears.
My DH says he’s ongoing either Have we overstepped? Would anyone else have made the same assumption?

OP posts:
Isthisreasonable · 07/04/2024 11:12

If none of you attend, what would your DB's reaction be? Upset? Not bothered? Relieved?

Is the wedding a hedonistic party for friends rather than a more traditional family and friends event?

Why doesn't your DB feel able to talk about what they want for their wedding? Perhaps he is happy to leave it all to the bride and clueless about potential ramifications of the decisions being made. Or they may have taken decisions that he is happy with but knew that this would be the reaction and has been trying to avoid the conversation.

housethatbuiltme · 07/04/2024 11:13

I didn't have my own kid as flower girl... I honestly see zero point in flower girls.

I would never assume my kid would have a part in someone elses wedding.

Them not being invited is different though and may mean us not going.

Needanewname42 · 07/04/2024 11:13

OutOfTheHouse · 07/04/2024 10:52

I was in the same class at school with my second cousin. I was much closer to her than one of my other cousins that I have not met to this day.
She might be very close to this second cousin and the children, but have spent little time with the op’s children.

Ultimately it’s her day and she can have anyone she to be flower girls, its up to her.

Where does the Op say these are her 2nd cousins? I read it as 1st cousins, kids?

Wexone · 07/04/2024 11:16

TheYearOfSmallThings · 06/04/2024 21:29

This does not reflect my experience of Irish weddings at all. I have never been to a wedding where the bridegroom's nieces would not be invited, let alone where other children would be present.

Irish weddings tend to be huge especially if live outside Dublin. many weddings I have been at have been 250 to 400 attending them. they tend to be very long and lots of drink involved. they are brilliant crack to be honest. I say I have been to nearly 50 the past 12 to 15 years (big families and big gaa) my sister had 12 one year. the very very rare one would have kids at them. if they are they are kids of tye bride and groom and direct family and a babysitter is arranged for them. no one I knows brings (nor wnats to ) their kids to weddings

op cases yes her kids should be invited but irish weddings don't normally have children at them. it's not really a suitable occasion fir them to be honest

Wexone · 07/04/2024 11:22

Notveryfloweryflowergirl · 07/04/2024 09:09

We had the same thing years ago, although we are the brides side. My mother in law said nothing. So I went and bought a bridesmaid dress for my daughter and sent her down the aisle anyway, nobody said a word.

Harder if they aren't invited.

Sweet Jesus christ 🙄😱🙈 brazen out. sure no on said a word to you but I would guess what everyone was saying behind your back CF
that's up there with the mother in law turning up in a white bridal gown

OOBetty · 07/04/2024 11:23

Wexone · 07/04/2024 11:16

Irish weddings tend to be huge especially if live outside Dublin. many weddings I have been at have been 250 to 400 attending them. they tend to be very long and lots of drink involved. they are brilliant crack to be honest. I say I have been to nearly 50 the past 12 to 15 years (big families and big gaa) my sister had 12 one year. the very very rare one would have kids at them. if they are they are kids of tye bride and groom and direct family and a babysitter is arranged for them. no one I knows brings (nor wnats to ) their kids to weddings

op cases yes her kids should be invited but irish weddings don't normally have children at them. it's not really a suitable occasion fir them to be honest

Irish family here as well and I have never been to a wedding without kids.
Whilst of heard of weddings without them and a non Irish friend had a small wedding with kids allowed at the ceremony but not the reception I’ve never been to a wedding of any Irish friends or family that excluded kids.
So I don’t think it’s necessarily got anything to do with being Irish.
We are all different.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 07/04/2024 11:30

Wexone · 07/04/2024 11:16

Irish weddings tend to be huge especially if live outside Dublin. many weddings I have been at have been 250 to 400 attending them. they tend to be very long and lots of drink involved. they are brilliant crack to be honest. I say I have been to nearly 50 the past 12 to 15 years (big families and big gaa) my sister had 12 one year. the very very rare one would have kids at them. if they are they are kids of tye bride and groom and direct family and a babysitter is arranged for them. no one I knows brings (nor wnats to ) their kids to weddings

op cases yes her kids should be invited but irish weddings don't normally have children at them. it's not really a suitable occasion fir them to be honest

Seriously, I am Irish and I have been to dozens of Irish weddings, mostly Dublin people but not all, and there have ALWAYS been children present at the wedding itself and until the evening.

Whatifthehokeycokey · 07/04/2024 11:30

I think it's always harder when you're the groom's side of the family, especially if you are women on the groom's side. Mother of the bride has a high profile, defined role. Mother of the groom not so much. Bride's sisters, nieces etc. quite likely to be bridesmaids. There's no role for the groom's sister. Often, although not always, the bride is more invested in the plans and details of the day than the groom.

So you were already feeling left out and sidelined even before she didn't invite your children, your brother's nieces. As many have already said, your mother was foolish for assuming her grandchildren were going to be flower girls. But I can see why you are so hurt that your children haven't been invited.

Unfortunately, I think you and your mother need to keep your feelings to yourself, otherwise you are going to risk alienating your brother and his wife.

Wexone · 07/04/2024 11:32

TheYearOfSmallThings · 07/04/2024 11:30

Seriously, I am Irish and I have been to dozens of Irish weddings, mostly Dublin people but not all, and there have ALWAYS been children present at the wedding itself and until the evening.

and I am saying I have been to loads and loads. hardly any children at them. sister was at one Friday no kids at it total of 300 sat down to the wedding. going to one in May. no children invited

Whatifthehokeycokey · 07/04/2024 11:34

Notveryfloweryflowergirl · 07/04/2024 09:09

We had the same thing years ago, although we are the brides side. My mother in law said nothing. So I went and bought a bridesmaid dress for my daughter and sent her down the aisle anyway, nobody said a word.

Harder if they aren't invited.

Sweet Jesus.

HotChocolateNotCocoa · 07/04/2024 11:35

ScribblingPixie · 07/04/2024 10:07

Maybe her brother just thinks of them as his mother’s partner’s kids; people he gets on perfectly well with, and doesn’t see as close.

Well, quite. And that's obviously an upsetting discovery for the family. And discovering that he doesn't want his nieces to share his wedding day is an upsetting discovery for the OP and her mother. The brother has lobbed a hand grenade into his family dynamics. It's very sad.

I get the issue with the nieces, and I think “family children only” would have been a good rule here. But if the OP’s mum and her partner are very upset by this “discovery” about the closeness, or lack thereof, between their children, maybe they should have paid closer attention? It’s presumptuous to decide on someone else’s behalf who they should think of as family.

jacks11 · 07/04/2024 11:57

I’m really surprised by the replies here supporting OP. You’re entitled to your feelings, but it doesn’t mean your DB and SIL are in the wrong either.

Unless your DB and/or SIL have a habit of being deliberately unkind to you/your mum or your stepfather, then I think you need to step back a bit and think about why what you want is more important than the choices they have made? None of these things- your SIL choosing her own wedding party, nor them wanting a child-free wedding, or not inviting adult step-siblings, is necessarily unreasonable. There may be good reasons for the latter two factors and your SIL is absolutely free to choose her own bridesmaids and flower girls, so has nothing to apologise to you for.

I think you are absolutely unreasonable to assume that your DD’s were going to be flower girls. That you continued to make this assumption when no request from SIL has been made is even less understandable. I imagine your DB and SIL had no inkling that you and your mum would immediately jump to that conclusion, so couldn’t pre-empt or advise you otherwise because it hadn’t entered their heads that you would do so! I don’t understand why you did either, it’s really absurd- and totally ridiculous to be annoyed or upset that your assumption was incorrect. Firstly, not every bride has flower girls; and secondly, you clearly aren’t that close to her as you don’t seem to know much about her, nor seem to be willing to actually talk to her directly. Your SIL probably chose her bridal party because of her relationship with them, as is exactly her right. Or perhaps she has been pressured into asking the cousin’s DDs to be flower girls by her own family? Or she really wants her cousin there but as they live in Ireland they could only come if the children came too? Who knows- OP doesn’t seem to. I would also say that it is really not your place to judge her family relationships- if it is the case that she is close to her cousin and her children, who are you to decide that it’s “not close enough” or that she should feel closer to your DD’s than her cousins children? It’s more than a little presumptuous. You can be upset, but I think you should acknowledge that your DB/SIL have not done anything wrong and you put yourself in this position.

As for the decision not to have children at the wedding (other than flower girls)- that is hardly an unknown phenomenon. Lots of weddings are child free or child free other than the wedding party- it is not a slight to the children as individuals and I think it is daft to make it so. Sometimes it’s personal preference and sometimes it’s to do with financial restrictions/venue space- people often have several children and it can quickly add substantially to numbers and costs. Either way, their choice to make.

You don’t have to like it and it might not be what you chose to do, but it is not unreasonable because of that. Of course, the bride and groom have to accept (with good grace) that some guests can’t attend if there are childcare issues for those parents invited. You are entitled to your view on child-free weddings and can choose to be insulted by it if you want and can then choose not to attend if that is the case- I think it is slightly like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Your girls are young enough that they’ll only be really upset about it if you choose to make a fuss and tell them they should be- I hope you hadn’t told them they were going to be flower girls? I have children and really can’t get upset about child-free weddings. I don’t view it as a personal
insult to me or my children, nor a reflection on their views of my children as individuals- why would I? I think it is bordering on self-absorbed to think that it is.

with regards to your step-fathers children not being invited- again, there may be good reasons or this, or perhaps a thoughtless oversight. You may feel very close to your stepfather and step-siblings and that is a lovely thing for all of you. But does your brother view them the same way? He may like them all well enough and without any animosity, but does not feel close to your stepfather or his children. It’s entirely feasible that he does not feel about them exactly the same as you do. And if that is the case, what gives you the right to decide his feelings are invalid and yours are the right ones? Your stepfather is most likely a lovely man from what you have said, but your brothers relationship with him is probably different to yours and his experiences of him not the same as yours. After all, full siblings can have very different experiences and relationships with their own parents, so it’s possible that you and your stepfather have a great relationship but your brother’s relationship with him is more distant or strained. Or maybe he and your stepfather get on fine but he genuinely doesn’t get on with your step-siblings? Perhaps it’s a numbers thing- to invite them he would have to not invite someone he wants there more? Perhaps he isn’t much involved in the planning and forgot to get your SIL to include them? Unless he has form for being deliberately hurtful to your stepfather or his children, then I wouldn’t assume a deliberate attempt to be so until you have good reason to back it up. Have you asked him why?

The fact you and your DB were invited to your step-siblings weddings is a red herring- that was (presumably) their choice and it would have been churlish for him to turn down the invitation if he actually gets on with them/likes them. And if he doesn’t, I imagine he thought declining the invitation without good justification would cause problems?

I can understand your stepfather being a bit put out, but I don’t think It’s the worst thing not to invite adult step-siblings (that you met as a late teen/adult). Are your step-siblings upset at not being invited- if they are is it because they feel slighted or because they are upset on their father’s behalf (as he is obviously upset)?

As for your mum paying for the dresses- I think your SIL has given her an out there and clearly doesn’t expect your mum to pay given the letter she wrote. She is not “being cheeky” to send the bill- your mum insisted on paying for the dresses based on her erroneous assumption that her granddaughters would be flower girls. That error was all down to your mum, and your SIL has already said it is fine for her not to pay. So, it’s up to her to decide whether she does or not. You, your mum and your step-dad are totally wrong, in my opinion, to hold that against her. The problem was all down to you and your mum making unreasonable assumptions.

Reading some replies, I understand why people elect to elope. So many opinions and demands that it soon stops being about the couple getting married and more about appeasing family members views on what should happen, who should be there and what roles they should play. My friends family made her wedding more about themselves and she cancelled the wedding whilst she still could and eloped as it had made her so miserable. I was so sad that she felt the need to do that because her family (and future in laws, to be fair) were more interested in their own wants and views - and in a few cases fragile ego’s- that they made her so unhappy that she and her now husband felt the best thing was to cancel and elope. What really rubbed salt in the wounds was that several members of both families were very clearly insulted and/or upset that they had eloped. in her case, her mother and her own sister are the most vocal about it- and two of the biggest instigators of the problem. It has really affected their relationships. Her mother in law was also angry but did actually have the decency to apologise when her son told her exactly why it had happened.

At the end of the day OP, you got it wrong re the flower girl situation- own it. You are entitled not to agree with child-free weddings but have to respect that others have a different view. I wouldn’t take it as a personal slight against you or your DDs- and unless there are going to be many other children there and your children are being specifically excluded, then it almost certainly isn’t. You can choose not to attend if you are mortally insulted. Your stepfather can also choose to be insulted and not attend.

OutOfTheHouse · 07/04/2024 12:03

Needanewname42 · 07/04/2024 11:13

Where does the Op say these are her 2nd cousins? I read it as 1st cousins, kids?

Oh I picked up second cousins from somewhere. Either way she can have who ever the hell she likes, children of her best friend, cousin’s children, her three teacup pigs if she wants. It’s her wedding and no one else’s place to assume who she will have.

JPGR · 07/04/2024 12:16

My brother always promised my daughters they could be bridesmaids but his wife-to-be had other ideas. They were very disappointed. Fast forward several years and my brother had three little girls of his own. Needless to say when my girls married they didn't ask their little cousins to be bridesmaids.

LittleBearPad · 07/04/2024 12:21

JPGR · 07/04/2024 12:16

My brother always promised my daughters they could be bridesmaids but his wife-to-be had other ideas. They were very disappointed. Fast forward several years and my brother had three little girls of his own. Needless to say when my girls married they didn't ask their little cousins to be bridesmaids.

And?

The amount of petty family politics on this thread is absurd.

Needanewname42 · 07/04/2024 12:23

OutOfTheHouse · 07/04/2024 12:03

Oh I picked up second cousins from somewhere. Either way she can have who ever the hell she likes, children of her best friend, cousin’s children, her three teacup pigs if she wants. It’s her wedding and no one else’s place to assume who she will have.

Agreed, she can choose who she wants.

Just hope Op and Granny haven't told Ops kids they were going to be flowergirls - oh shit!

JPGR · 07/04/2024 12:27

LittleBearPad · 07/04/2024 12:21

And?

The amount of petty family politics on this thread is absurd.

Off you pop then. Onto something more to your taste.

NeverBeforeToday · 07/04/2024 12:31

Notveryfloweryflowergirl · 07/04/2024 09:09

We had the same thing years ago, although we are the brides side. My mother in law said nothing. So I went and bought a bridesmaid dress for my daughter and sent her down the aisle anyway, nobody said a word.

Harder if they aren't invited.

So I went and bought a bridesmaid dress for my daughter and sent her down the aisle anyway, nobody said a word

Sure you did.

pootlin · 07/04/2024 12:35

NameChangedAgainn · 07/04/2024 10:03

OP said in her comment that she can't imagine what they would say if she turned up with her kids in flower girl dresses. I was letting her know what I've heard about happening in that situation.

We didn't have flower girls, as we didn't have any children of the appropriate age that we were close to. Nobody in either side of the family cared.

OP said in her comment that she can't imagine what they would say if she turned up with her kids in flower girl dresses.

Yew, she meant that it would be unthinkable and mortifying to do so.

OutOfTheHouse · 07/04/2024 12:39

Needanewname42 · 07/04/2024 12:23

Agreed, she can choose who she wants.

Just hope Op and Granny haven't told Ops kids they were going to be flowergirls - oh shit!

Well that is the fault of the OP and granny. The bride shouldn’t be forced into having children she doesn’t want as flower girls because someone else made an assumption.

Can you imagine the thread from the other side?

MIL and SIL went and told my HTB’s nieces that they would be flower girls at my wedding. I’d always promised it to my cousins daughters. We are really close. Now SIL is sulking and saying that she won’t come to the wedding. It’s my wedding. AIBU to think I can have who I want at my own wedding?

Francisflute · 07/04/2024 12:39

pootlin · 07/04/2024 12:35

OP said in her comment that she can't imagine what they would say if she turned up with her kids in flower girl dresses.

Yew, she meant that it would be unthinkable and mortifying to do so.

I think this would be a delightful idea. Only if they can get them in ladies' sizes for OP and DM too though, of course. Do it OP, you show her!

RhubarbAndGingerCheesecake · 07/04/2024 12:46

NeverBeforeToday · 07/04/2024 12:31

So I went and bought a bridesmaid dress for my daughter and sent her down the aisle anyway, nobody said a word

Sure you did.

I had a friend who made bridesmaids dresses for a friends wedding (don't know if she was paid) as she was in clothes industry and highly skilled who was upset her DD wasn't then asked to be a bridesmaid. She made her DD a matching dress - though she didn't walk down the aisle she was snuck in photos later according to friend. I thought it odd behavior but then again making the dresses was time consuming and stressful venture - she was complaining to me it was causing rows with her DH.

I do think GM and Op were wrong to assume flower girls and odd they aren't invited at all - but I say go along smile with Mum and keep communication open for future.

DoreenonTill8 · 07/04/2024 13:01

Francisflute · 07/04/2024 12:39

I think this would be a delightful idea. Only if they can get them in ladies' sizes for OP and DM too though, of course. Do it OP, you show her!

Oo yeah!! Although maybe one should wear a big white dress and like a veil or something for their head! Take Aunt Sarah in Derry Girls for wedding guest inspo, that'll show her!

To have expected my daughters to be flower girls
Redmat · 07/04/2024 13:30

I wouldn't have assumed my children would be in the bridal party in this situation. I would have hoped they would (as nieces of the bridegroom ) be invited to the wedding. However some people even prohibit close family children from their child free weddings and that is their prerogative.

Mouse82 · 07/04/2024 14:31

JPGR · 07/04/2024 12:16

My brother always promised my daughters they could be bridesmaids but his wife-to-be had other ideas. They were very disappointed. Fast forward several years and my brother had three little girls of his own. Needless to say when my girls married they didn't ask their little cousins to be bridesmaids.

Cool story bro.

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