To have expected my daughters to be flower girls

[Notmotherofflowergirls]

Just created an account for people to pile on to me and tell me I am an idiot. I don’t think I can tell my real friends.
I am inwardly cringing!
My brother is getting married in 3 months time to a woman with no nieces or nephews.
My mother and I naturally assumed that my two girls 4 and 6 would be the flower girls. There are no other kids in the family although stepdad has grandchildren.
My mother was feeling left out of all the planning. DB was uncommunicative about the plans and always referred us to SiL and when my mum asked to contribute she was batted away.
Finally Mum insisted that she would buy the flower girl dresses and finally brother agreed. So on Wednesday SiL posted an invoice for three flower girl dresses from a Shop in Dublin. She included a nice note saying that she mustn’t feel obliged to pay.
My mum asked who the third dress was for: it turns out all three are for her cousin’s girls.
Brother came round and said that they will be only kids at wedding.
My brother was asked point blank if he didn’t want his nieces there and all he could say was he would speak with SiL. He did look sheepish.
My dad died and while my mum has not remarried she has been with her partner for 9 years. His kids are not invited. My stepdad isn’t going and is angry that my mum has been made to feel so upset.
I feel as if I have been kicked in the guts. My mum keeps bursting into tears.
My DH says he’s ongoing either Have we overstepped? Would anyone else have made the same assumption?

Honestly I think you and your mum have overstepped.

It's usually brides choose of bridesmaids so it's more likely she would choose from her own family as she will be closer to them. It reads like you and your mum assumed that it would be your kids? Without being asked?

Grooms mum isn't typically involved in the planning as bride tends to take the lead. It was nice of your mum to offer a contribution.

No young kids is their choice. Presumably that's no kids at all on both sides other than the three in the bridal party. Again it's nothing to do with you. If it's just your sides kids that have been not included then that's different.

Not including adult step kids is harsh if it's financial then they could have accepted more contribution from your mum. It's likely they don't see them as family. I wouldn't go if I were your step dad.

You don’t know this.

I will give you an example to illustrate an alternative. My OH has siblings who are deeply controlling, manipulative, and want things done their way or no way at all. If you spoke to them they would tell you that all of them as siblings are very close and they all love each other and they’re one big happy family. They say this because they want it to be true and they want to appear to others this way. But it is not true for my OH. His involvement in the family is low-key because his opinions, likes and dislikes, and choices are either ignored, run over, or in some instances, given lip service but then deliberately plans are changed. This means there is no room for compromise or discussion ever. It’s their way or no way, from big decisions to minutiae of organisation.

The brother in this scenario with the OP may find he can tolerate certain people at arm’s length but does not feel close to them. He may have even communicated displeasure in a number of ways but the common family narrative does not want to hear it.

Automatically demonising the SIL and brother is ridiculous. What we do know for sure is that OP and her mother wilfully imposed a situation that had nothing to do with them. They didn’t reach out and ask the question - they assumed. That level of self-entitlement and desire for control says a great deal about how they view family.

Then be a man and say that. If he is old enough to be getting married then he is old enough to have a grown up conversation with his family

And if they do kick off, if OP and her mum are as awful people as a lot of posters on this thread are making them out to be, then that’s a good opportunity for him to say well none of you are invited then

You would have a fit if anyone was this scathing and dismissive of your culture. The sheer ignorance of it is astounding.

I think it’s unkind of your ‘stepdad’ to refuse to go because his adult children aren’t invited.

I wouldn’t have assumed your kids would be flower girls but they should be invited. If you mean the only kids invited are the flower girls and yours aren’t invited at all THAT would upset me. If your step dad (unofficially) isn’t going because his kids aren’t going thats a bit petty as he should go with your mum. Are they close to your brother? Does his fiancee know them? Is she close to your kids?

It’s your brothers day as well and he can invite who he chooses so i wouldn’t be bothered by the flower girl part but the rest of it and why he isn’t speaking up? Unless he doesn’t want any of you there either but he needs to be clear

About half the posts think you , your mother and your "step father" are presumptuous, have over-stepped the mark and are behaving like spoilt brats. Are you taking any of that on board?

I feel sorry for the bride. You and your mother and your "step father" sound like a nightmare.

It's not just unkind. It's pathetically childish.

Yes, agreed. A poster after me said it was petty. It’s absolutely is.

What is all this should. They’re having a child free wedding other than the flower girls. That’s fine. It’s perfectly reasonable.

I don’t see that stepdad’s adult kids should be invited either. 10 years together is not the same as having grown up with the step kids and SD always having been in their lives.

They didn’t reach out and ask the question - they assumed.

This. There were a lot of assumptions on OP and her mum’s part without actually talking to the bride when the groom wasn’t as commutative as they wanted him to be. If you’re close to the bride, you would have little issue asking questions to them yourself.

My best friend is Goan and her cousins’ kids are her nephews and nieces and I think my SiL refers to her cousins’ kids as the same.

My English in-laws do the same thing. Five of our nieces and nephews are DH’s first cousins’ children. In my family (different country), they are still called cousins and introduced as such.

@HotChocolateNotCocoa i married into a different culture and can honestly say, there are many cultural differences I don't agree with but the one I do agree is. Everyone is treated as "family" no-one gets left behind. Especially Not the grooms mother.

The funny thing is that childfree weddings have increased, and are increasing, in popularity in many cultures. I had a childfree wedding, and neither me nor my husband are even slightly British, Celtic or Anglo Saxon.

This is true - can you imagine the outrage.

@Illstartexercisingtomorrow · Today 00:43

Unbelievable. I have never been so glad not to be of traditional white British culture. I cannot fathom a situation where in a wedding the groom’s mother is treated as no more than a guest (how dare she want to be involved, only the bride’s mother is allowed) and the groom’s nieces aren’t even invited!!! In my culture weddings are about the family and the couple. No way would we ever exclude anyone even vaguely related.

What an absolute useless loser the groom is. And sil clearly a bit of a dick too not including nieces simply bcos her fiancé is too pathetic to give his own family any importance.

I am in support of your post, but please don't dump all us white British people into one homogenous mass. I would NEVER have left anyone out of my wedding. Everyone was included, on the bride's side AND the groom's side. Everyone in my family has always included everyone.

As I said much earlier in the thread, my 2 DDs (when they were children,) were wanted as bridesmaids by my brother's wife and her mother. (And my brother of course!) And our mum was as involved in the wedding plans as my sister-in-law's mum. I have been very defensive of the OP and think she is right to be upset. I agree with your words, but please stop the generalisation of white British people. It's quite rude.

Can you not read? The brother SHOULD be clear and man up & say they aren’t invited because…

”child free” does not normally extend to sibling children in most cases theres an exception. In this instance his family are excluded & if that is his choice as much as his sil’s he needs to say so and not look sheepish or say he’ll talk to her 🙄 so yes he SHOULD say to them. Not clear if step dads kids are young but i’d assume a bit older & again they are part of his family & if all kids aren’t invited bar the flower girls and his own nieces aren’t flowet girls or invited then as his sister i wouldn’t be going.

their wedding, their choice & thats reasonable. Sisters’s kids, her choice, also reasonable not to go (or go but suck it up and don’t complain or feel bad) either way it is shitty of them not to invite all of his family as the wedding is for both of them unless HE doesn’t want any of them there.

My stepdad and his children are my family. We have been around them in our community for decades before our parents even got together.

With all due respect, that is how YOU feel about your mother’s partner and his children. You don’t know if your brother feels the same, and you can’t force it.

Quite a few people on this thread have been somewhat scathing about the flower girls being “only some cousin’s daughters”. But the bride probably grew up with this cousin. To her, they are probably a close part of the family, just as you think of your mother’s partner and his children as family. You wouldn’t be happy with anyone trying to decide for you that blood relatives are more important. Perhaps the bride deserves the same courtesy?

I was in the same class at school with my second cousin. I was much closer to her than one of my other cousins that I have not met to this day.
She might be very close to this second cousin and the children, but have spent little time with the op’s children.

Ultimately it’s her day and she can have anyone she to be flower girls, its up to her.

I would have thought your girls would be asked to be flower girls, but I wouldn’t have assumed it and then offered to pay for the dresses without confirmation, surely at that point your brother and his future wife thought why is she offering to pay for dresses for three kids she doesn’t know? And put two and two together and explained it to her more gently.

This completely ignores the nuances of individual relationships. It’s very easy to dismiss a cousin’s children as “not close”, but you have no idea how close the bride is to their mother.

Two of my younger cousins are currently on holiday together. One was bridesmaid to the other last year; the bridesmaid is now engaged, and I have no doubt her cousin will be maid of honour. If and when one of them has children, I’m sure the other will see them more like nieces or nephews.

I hope this is a joke…

In all of the weddings I have been to the flower girls (if there are any, the tradition seems to be dying out) come from the bride's family or friends. Just as the best man is from the groom's family and friends. If I were the bride and my future MIL, future SIL and long term partner of the future MIL, tried to dictate who should be the flower girls or even who is on the guest list I would be furious. I would be even more furious if my future MIL and future SIL made assumptions over who they believe should be flower girls, and quietly manipulate things by paying for their dresses, especially when it seems this is only in the future MIL and future SIL's heads. I personally do not like child free weddings but I would absolutely defend any couple the right to have the wedding as they wish. I do wonder how the OP, or indeed her mother, would have felt if their future in laws had dictated how their wedding should be.

However, the "stepfather" words fail me. What a pathetically childish reaction he has to not having his adult children invited! Is he 12?

I agree am irish too been to about 50 weddings in about the past 12 years or so. (big families both sides and also big gaa participation ) can count on one hand the amount of weddings children have been at and if they were were children of bride and groom or direct family. none of my friends want to bring kids to weddings their invited too 🤣
but in the ops case her kids should be invited as they are direct family

But getting on isn’t the same as being close.

The OP said her stepdad has children and grandchildren, plural. Let’s assume two children, a spouse/partner each and one child per couple. That’s six extra guests, possibly more. Giving those six slots to quasi-stepfamily could mean six close friends or three couples have to be dropped from the guest list.

Amazed at not having family kids at Irish weddings. Things have changed. As kids we were always included even if it was just an evening do.
That's my memory, big mixed age groups, sitting, dancing, grazing the beige buffet.

Anyway, I'm 50, we live in a big house in a holiday area and thinking about the future. Our family is so spread out.
There's been some bad news and good news within the wider family and I've been far down the pecking order to find out. So all those people are not on the list for accommodation. Likewise those that we didn't make the cut for weddings. By the time it gets to funerals, everyone wants bums on seats but I'm already not sure I can be arsed with that now.

The guest list is part of a long game.