To have expected my daughters to be flower girls

[Notmotherofflowergirls]

Just created an account for people to pile on to me and tell me I am an idiot. I don’t think I can tell my real friends.
I am inwardly cringing!
My brother is getting married in 3 months time to a woman with no nieces or nephews.
My mother and I naturally assumed that my two girls 4 and 6 would be the flower girls. There are no other kids in the family although stepdad has grandchildren.
My mother was feeling left out of all the planning. DB was uncommunicative about the plans and always referred us to SiL and when my mum asked to contribute she was batted away.
Finally Mum insisted that she would buy the flower girl dresses and finally brother agreed. So on Wednesday SiL posted an invoice for three flower girl dresses from a Shop in Dublin. She included a nice note saying that she mustn’t feel obliged to pay.
My mum asked who the third dress was for: it turns out all three are for her cousin’s girls.
Brother came round and said that they will be only kids at wedding.
My brother was asked point blank if he didn’t want his nieces there and all he could say was he would speak with SiL. He did look sheepish.
My dad died and while my mum has not remarried she has been with her partner for 9 years. His kids are not invited. My stepdad isn’t going and is angry that my mum has been made to feel so upset.
I feel as if I have been kicked in the guts. My mum keeps bursting into tears.
My DH says he’s ongoing either Have we overstepped? Would anyone else have made the same assumption?

OP - I totally get where you're coming from and would also be very upset about it.

Your SIL doesn't sound very nice and your brother sounds useless.

How because OP and her mum are planning and making assumptions about a wedding that is not theirs and have not been asked their input?

The amount of posters happy to blame the bride when OP herself doesn’t read like she actually talks to the woman is ridiculous. OP literally says her brother is uncommunicative and tells them to talk to the bride yet they continue to pass messages through him. The mum wants to contribute has been told it is not necessary or in OP words “batted away” yet continues to assist on it regardless and pushes to pay for flower girl dresses expecting it will be her granddaughters.

Nowhere does OP say she actually talks to the bride on a regular basis or has asked the bride how planning was getting on, if she needs help with anything which OP could have used to find out more about the wedding planning and likely wouldn’t have been blindsided by flower girls and such.

I am overwhelmed by the number of supportive responses. I thought I would be devoured.
We are in the North West of England, my dad was English and my mum is Irish as is stepdad and sister-in-law’s parents
Their wedding is a large one in church and hotel.
My stepdad and his children are my family. We have been around them in our community for decades before our parents even got together.
If mum and stepdad married it would potentially make life difficult for us re: inheritance and care homes etc. To call him my mum’s boyfriend reduces him because they did a noble thing to protect their children.
Stepdad is the nicest, most generous person but is very hurt. Incidentally brother does not know of his or my husband’s reactions.
I have no idea if Brother or SiL knew of mum’s assumptions about flower girls. Neither of us were pushy but my mum wanted to pay for something. She said she would pay for dresses and she is, she doesn’t want to be seen as paying for something with conditions.
I believe that the couple are paying for the wedding themselves with exception of the dress and the open bar that her dad id paying for.
I don’t know how to quote posters but one said I referred to my SiL as a woman without nieces and that I was insulting. I don’t know
How else I was meant to explain.
Of course my brother knows his nieces as does sister in law.
My brother just told my mother that people Will know all the details from the invitation and didn’t realise he was meant to give all details before.
My best friend is Goan and her cousins’ kids are her nephews and nieces and I think my SiL refers to her cousins’ kids as the same.
I recognise that it was presumptuous for me to assume that they would be flower girls but I am hurt and as for not being invited I am devastated. And no. They’re not badly behaved.
If I bought flower girl dresses and sent them down the aisle anyway like a previous poster I can’t imagine what they’d say. I really want to know what the bride said to that poster.

All of this 👏🏼

I had a “hoy oot” at my wedding 28 years ago!

You may consider your step siblings as siblings, but maybe your brother has a different view?

I suspect your mother was pushy. She was repeatedly told 'no' to paying for the dresses but pushed hard enough that the bride felt she had to concede and let her do it. I suspect she felt pushed.

I'm on your side about kids at weddings but try to see things from someone else's point of view.

Well that wedding isn't going to be awkward at all!!!
Presumably you'll still go as it's your brother getting married but you'll be cross/upset that your DH and DD will not be with you. Step dad isn't going, so not only is your mum crying now, she too will be upset if he's not there.
All very sour!
For what it's worth, I'd be upset if I were you but your brother sounds like a bloody wet lettuce!
Oh and you said your brother doesn't know your mum and you assumed the girls would be flower girls and your mum is so upset etc, so maybe communication is lacking all round if none of you are actually talking to each other?!

I doubt SIL and your brother would have any clue about your assumption that your children would be in the bridal party, unless you've said something to them.
I would have honestly thought it was a joke if any of my siblings-in-law said they thought their kids would be in the bridal party.
If you turn up with your children in flower girl dresses when they're not invited, there's a good chance you'll be told to leave the wedding. I've seen a few instances of this or of people bringing uninvited children, in the wedding planning groups I was in, and that's exactly what has happened. Not least because an uninvited guest doesn't have a seat or a meal for the wedding breakfast.
OP, I say this as kindly as possible, your actions now will shape your relationship with you brother and SIL, and any children they may have. Same for your mother.

Similarly, his whole family - including step siblings - should be invited if her cousins are invited.

I’ve known my cousins all my life. I held my cousin’s daughter as a day-old baby. I wouldn’t be putting the children of my mother’s partner, whom I’d only met in adulthood, on the same level as them.

So patronising, nothing OP has said indicates she would turn up with her children in flower girl dresses.

If you would also make your cousin’s kids flower girls but not your own nieces without a good reason then you are just like OP’s SIL and DB.

The ‘good reason’ is that she’s chosen the bridal party she wants and is close to. That’s the only reason she needs.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I’ve read both of OP’s posts and I have to say, crap like this is why I eloped. From what you’re indicating, there are a few step-children and they have children. The bride and groom are paying for the majority of this themselves and they have to draw the line somewhere. They may have decided that all children of siblings, unless in the wedding party, are not invited.

I think there is a lot that isn’t being said here, and I’m inclined to think that because you all decided that your daughters would be flower girls, there’s a whole lot of other imposition across multiple areas.

Kindly, this isn’t your wedding. Back off.

I think SIL is a proper piece of work.

How sexist of you to think this is just a SIL issue and not OP's own brother's oversight/lack of interest in having certain family there? When are we going to hold men accountable for their own actions/lack of action? It sounds like OP's brother had not communicated anything to his family at all, with a decision he has contributed to but taken little responsibility for. SIL seems to be close to her cousin's kids and wants them as flower girls, that's not anyone else's fault at all. OP's brother (who is also getting married) excluded them from the wedding equally or was passive about it.

Personally, I wouldn't do what SIL has done but to say this is all SIL is horrible. No wonder why so many women end up with poor relationships with ILs.

The best case scenario for all might be for OP's brother and SIL to add two extra flower girls but would you even want that now @Notmotherofflowergirls?

On the contrary, if they don’t have an invitation then it has been communicated. We have no idea how the brother feels about these people, and as much as OP likes to think she does, she may actually not. The brother does not owe anybody an invitation to his wedding, and neither does his wife-to-be.

That’s fine but to not invite OP’s dds is shitty.

Hope she doesn’t expect a close relationship with them in future.

I agree with this too. I had lots of children at my wedding, I really cannot see the problem. If I was the OP I too would be very upset. Seems her brother is going to have his work cut out if his new wife isn’t considering he has a family that quite rightly would like to be treated like a little more than just a guest.

She’s marrying this man and they are his family. She will become part of that family. It’s not just HER wedding ffs.

Who says that was her decision? HE may be the one that wants that.

I don’t see why she particularly would expect a close relationship in future tbh.

OP said in her comment that she can't imagine what they would say if she turned up with her kids in flower girl dresses. I was letting her know what I've heard about happening in that situation.

We didn't have flower girls, as we didn't have any children of the appropriate age that we were close to. Nobody in either side of the family cared.

The bride chooses her own attendants from her own family and friends. She would have her own plans for numbers and precedence and budget and what not for her wedding. She has history with, and may have shared promises and plans a long time ago with her chosen bridesmaids.

Assuming, to the extent of trying to push it by buying dresses for children unrelated to her, was presumptuous. I'd be very hacked off if I'd been her.

Exactly this.

No, but it is HER bridal party. For all we know he doesn’t what his family involved at the level they want to be. This could all be his decision, yet she’s the one getting the blame for it based on this weird idea that he must be under her control, and that she’s more responsible for his family than he is.

I think you were wrong to assume your DDs would be flowergirls. Personally , I think that flowergirls are surplus to requirements in modern weddings.

I do think it is very sad that your DDs are not invited. Especially as they are the only nieces. Can your MIL look after them on the day? Or someone else that you trust?

Does your brother make any effort to see your step siblings without someone else
organising it? Maybe he doesnt actually think of them as step siblings. This too is sad. Or maybe they are limited by numbers.

I think you all have to swallow your pride and hurt and attend the wedding. Your mum needs her partners support on the day. Your husband should support you there too. It sounds like your hurt has influenced your partners reactions.

Your mum and you have overstepped the mark. I would quietly forget about paying for the dresses and give them an equivalent amount towards their honeymoon.

Don't let this ruin your relationship with your brother and his wife.

@Easipeelerie no, they found themselves a seat by moving our table plan around. We simply marvelled at their audacity and continued to enjoy our day. We did however draw a line at them featuring in the formal wedding party photos

Maybe her brother just thinks of them as his mother’s partner’s kids; people he gets on perfectly well with, and doesn’t see as close.

Well, quite. And that's obviously an upsetting discovery for the family. And discovering that he doesn't want his nieces to share his wedding day is an upsetting discovery for the OP and her mother. The brother has lobbed a hand grenade into his family dynamics. It's very sad.