To have expected my daughters to be flower girls

[Notmotherofflowergirls]

Just created an account for people to pile on to me and tell me I am an idiot. I don’t think I can tell my real friends.
I am inwardly cringing!
My brother is getting married in 3 months time to a woman with no nieces or nephews.
My mother and I naturally assumed that my two girls 4 and 6 would be the flower girls. There are no other kids in the family although stepdad has grandchildren.
My mother was feeling left out of all the planning. DB was uncommunicative about the plans and always referred us to SiL and when my mum asked to contribute she was batted away.
Finally Mum insisted that she would buy the flower girl dresses and finally brother agreed. So on Wednesday SiL posted an invoice for three flower girl dresses from a Shop in Dublin. She included a nice note saying that she mustn’t feel obliged to pay.
My mum asked who the third dress was for: it turns out all three are for her cousin’s girls.
Brother came round and said that they will be only kids at wedding.
My brother was asked point blank if he didn’t want his nieces there and all he could say was he would speak with SiL. He did look sheepish.
My dad died and while my mum has not remarried she has been with her partner for 9 years. His kids are not invited. My stepdad isn’t going and is angry that my mum has been made to feel so upset.
I feel as if I have been kicked in the guts. My mum keeps bursting into tears.
My DH says he’s ongoing either Have we overstepped? Would anyone else have made the same assumption?

After 27 pages of posts I'm sure there's nothing new I can add but my immediate thoughts were

• you're not unreasonable to feel hurt your daughter's weren't asked to be flower girls, but you probably shouldn't have assumed. Are your brother and SIL close with your daughters?
• it's not on for your daughter's who are your brothers nieces to not be invited, when SILs cousins kids are invited. Imo it should be no children, or all family children. (Can understand not wanting friends kids there)
• I can't believe they've not invited your step siblings, that's really harsh and I'm not surprised your step dad now doesn't want to go
• to be balanced, I can see how your mum would have been seen as overbearing by your SIL if she kept trying to be involved in planning, paying for part of it, etc. they may have refused money because they felt it would have had strings attached. These days weddings are planned by the bride and groom and it is less the norm for in laws to have a say than in decades past so I don't blame your brother and SIL on this part.

We had the same thing years ago, although we are the brides side. My mother in law said nothing. So I went and bought a bridesmaid dress for my daughter and sent her down the aisle anyway, nobody said a word.

Harder if they aren't invited.

You sent your daughter down the aisle in someone else's wedding when she wasn't invited to be a bridesmaid?

No, they don’t. The bride can choose to do that, but it doesn’t mean she has to include the groom’s nieces if she doesn’t want to for her bridal party.

The bride very likely is closer to her cousin and those children than OP and her children. Why some seem to think that is impossible and want to write it off as such family members less deserving or consider them distant is very odd to me.

As another pp wrote, the bride’s cousin could be her bridesmaid and the daughters her flower girls.

I can't believe they've not invited your step siblings, that's really harsh and I'm not surprised your step dad now doesn't want to go

I can't believe that the adult children of the OP's mother's partner, who isn't married to OP's mother and who the OP only met when they were all adults are thought of as "step siblings"

The "step father" is even more childish than the OP.

Step siblings is used as short hand to be clear of who they are. I'm well aware of how relationships can be between adults who's parents get together later in life.

OP said they get on well and the brother attended their weddings so it's not like they don't get on

They're a celebration of the couple.

In some cultures it is also about bringing families together.

Chances are the bride to be would be horrified if she had any idea all this was going on behind her back.

I remember my MIL to be (at the time) telling us about some previously unheard of by me relative of the groom to be who was very offended not to get an invite to our wedding (which was very small). I asked my DH if they needed to be invited, as I had no idea and assumed he'd have known who from his side needed inviting. He said no need to invite them, so I took his word for it. MIL didn't seem bothered. I don't think I've ever met these people in all the time we've been married.

Brides are likely to be quite oblivious to the dynamics and expectations of the groom's family. That's why it's his responsibility and on him, not the bride, if there are issues.

If the bride is close to her cousin she may be , very close to her cousin's children. Why shouldn't she pick them in that case?

When my brother got married, my DC had met his fiancée once. My sister lived in the same town, so met up regularly.
I did not have expectations that they would be asked, but I thought their cousins would be. They didn't have an equal relationship.

I was asked if I would make the dresses before I knew who had been asked, and I agreed knowing that could well be the situation.

Actually when it came to it, they did ask my DC too, and I was grateful, but I wouldn't have felt it was mean if she hadn't.

Yup. Sent a photo of the dress to the family whatsap group in advance, was clear what it was.
It was better than falling out with everyone each other.

Quite. All this angst over one day!

I think SIL is a proper piece of work. Marriages are very often preparatory to having children and if you like children and want them yourself why would you not want them at your wedding? Why would you arrange a wedding that is an inconvenience to anybody attending who has children because they have to find childcare? Can't afford it? Go and get the deed done with two witnesses and have a blow out celebration for your tenth wedding anniversary.

I would go and indicate strong disapproval by a miserable wedding gift. Preferably something plastic.

You mentioned buying dresses from a shop in Dublin so I think you should have been clear about it being an Irish wedding.

Culturally, proper Irish weddings are very different to U.K. weddings and the joining of two families is a huge part of it. It is expected that children will be included and a part of the formalities. Child free weddings outside of the capital are virtually unheard of and eyebrows would definitely be raised!

I feel very sorry for you and your mum as people will talk about this snub and your brother is an idiot to not be thinking about how this will affect his side of the family for years to come.

Yanbu.

I wouldn't have made the flower girl assumption.

However, i dont understand why your daughters arent invited and I wouldn't go either.

I'd encourage your mum not to pay for the dresses.

Bride is rude. Brother is spineless.

OP said they get on well and the brother attended their weddings so it's not like they don't get on

OP can only speak for herself though. The brother may get on with them, but not feel close enough to them hence not inviting them to the wedding but inviting the stepfather. OP hasn’t mentioned how big the wedding is going to be. Since they are paying for it themselves, they may be keeping the numbers small. I know some posters here are if I invite someone to my event, they have to invite me to theirs, but the brother may not feel the same or want to spend the extra money including them.

I'd bet even money if they were invited they would arrive wearing the same dresses as a flower girl.

I went to an adult only wedding and at the evening do the bride's mother's friends turned up with their daughter in what looked like a bridesmaid's dress.

Really awkward because family children were not there and some people felt their children had been snubbed.

Yeah you're right there, that's fair enough

Bet you were the talk of the wedding and not in a good way.

The one that is being unreasonable here is the brother as he has consistently said “speak to fiancée” when asked anything about the wedding from his mum and sister (OP)

So either he is marrying someone who is controlling everything and therefore she doesn’t want his family involved or he is a wet lettuce who doesn’t know or care about what is happening at his own wedding. Neither scenario is a great quality to have

I don’t see the “men don’t care about the wedding” reaction in my own experience. Most of the guys I know, including my own, have liked being involved in the wedding planning

Wow. I guess you do not have any sons?

You seem a bit annoyed and bitter over the things you “had” to do for your wedding, which is making your attitude come across as “If I had to put up with it, why shouldn’t they?” The exclamation marks overdose is a bit much too.

And again with blaming the SIL 🤦🏻‍♀️

Childfree weddings are very normal, whether the couple marrying want children themselves or not. If it’s an inconvenience for those invited they are free to decline.

Or third option, he has been involved in the wedding planning and doesn't want OPs kids there but it a wet lettuce for not making sure OP knew this.

Or he knows full well what is happening, actively chose for his family to have this level of involvement, but is being evasive because he doesn’t want to deal with the inevitable drama.

We had no kids at our wedding, it was just easier as dh had children and there were a lot of kids on my side of the family. We decided to get married on a school day so there was no issue with child care and people could attend, we didn’t have an evening reception (just wedding and small reception in the afternoon). You were wrong to assume your DD’s would be flower girls, you put your brother in a tricky situation by making him feel guilty.