To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

I hate to break it to you but I don't think white people have ever felt uncomfortable with racism.

I don't think any ethnicity ever has.

It's basically the human default.

That’s great, then you don’t have to go to one. This is not being forced on anyone if it doesn’t apply to you then you can move along.

The idea that black people in the UK or any western country, would have the power to create segregated spaces is so idiotic it’s laughable and shows that the person suggesting it has no concept of history or present day life for black people in the west. Look how much chaos this NON SEGREGATED event has created ffs! They’d burn down the building before that happened.

My initial instinct is that it’s divisive, or at least the way it’s being deliberately marketed is. I think a message that’s particularly encouraging one group to attend is fine, but on this occasion they’re simultaneously asking another group not to attend (although they won’t actually bar them if they turn up). That’s the bit that sits somewhat awkwardly with me.

I’ve been reading all the views carefully here as I’m keen to properly understand the opposing view. I’m well aware that I may not be understanding all sides fully. There have been some really interesting comments, which have been helpful and quite enlightening in helping to see things a different way.

Also, what I struggle to understand is why slavery is considered to be a black issue when many white people were enslaved too? And why are people today so affected when it’s described as “ancestral” - and many people may not even know if their own ancestors were slaves?

And with all that in mind, why would a black audience need a space away from white people? Unless the suggestion is that white people today are still being held accountable for ancestral crimes? I can think of many examples where an exclusive space for black people might be necessary, but I can’t see how this is one?

Im certainly not trying to say “white lives matter” and I hope that isn’t how it comes across! I’m just trying to understand what I’m missing.

For context, I’m autistic and sometimes miss the obvious so just want to emphasise my questions are genuine and well-intentioned, if maybe stupid 🫣

Asking white people not to go feels the opposite of uplifting black people which many people have said is the point.

There have been some really useful comparisons on this thread re single sex spaces.

My example - if was a play that was directly relevant to the autistic community it would be great to see a real drive to encourage autistic people to attend. And I’d expect the show to amplify autistic voices, and feature performances from autistic people. I wouldn’t expect neurotypical people to be discouraged from attending, nor explicitly told to book tickets for another night. I think that’s maybe my issue with this - possibly it’s the marketing that I object to? I absolutely understand the need to encourage more diverse audiences and to emphasise that the theatre is for everyone. I’m just not sure that excluding another group is the way to do it.*

*I know white people wont actually be turned away but the marketing basically ask them not to come.

"all-black-identifying audiences"

Right.

So if men who identify as women as treated as women, I can say I identify as black and attend (I'm white). And then state discrimination if I'm refused entry.

Load of fucking nonsense.

You wouldn't be refused entry anyway, so your stupid plan wouldn't work.

Black identifying also doesn't mean what you seem to think it does.

@LessonsinChemistryandLove ,

I don’t lack knowledge, I disagree with you. Stop trying to weaponise the ‘racism’ word to drown out other opinions. My mother and her father (both white Jews) went on the torchlight parades in S.A pre-apartheid (do you know what they were?!).

Of course minorities can create segregated spaces. And this is an attempt at segregation, whites are clearly not welcome on these nights. That is a fact, not an opinion! As for ‘identifying as black’, WTF does that mean?!

I wonder how many black people support this (I suspect a vocal small minority) or would prefer to go on these nights rather than any other.

What is gained about a black only night about a play about slavery? In 2024 we can watch a play about slavery and be appalled no matter whatever your ethnicity? The type of white person going to see a play about slavery is the type of person who is conscious of racism and wants to broaden their historical understanding if this period of history.

I understand wanting to understand events that shape us but is this akin to a Scots only version of the battles which Scotland lost so they were subsumed by the English, or a Catholic only version of eras if Catholic persecution in the UK?

I don't think it adds anything to have people of one ethnicity in a play about anything. I think we are in a position in society where can share all are historical experiences collectively.

Wow. Did you mean to sound so antisemitic?

Are you saying everyone is racist by default? Sorry if I misunderstood - long day!

I was wondering about whether they're going to include access performances at these Black Out nights (ie, BSL interpretation, audio description, captioning, etc). Otherwise deaf and disabled black people who would otherwise attend a Black Out night, would not be able to. And therefore such nights would not be inclusive.

WTAF did I just read? “Does the UK have any connection with slavery?”

Have you honestly never heard of the North Atlantic slave trade? Triangular Trade? Where did you think the ancestors of Afro-Caribbeans came from? Hint: they weren’t on a cruise and thought Jamaica was so nice they would stay there.

They walk amongst us people…

I would really love for someone to explain the racism in the belief expressed by some posters on this thread that the move by the execs who run the Noel Coward theatre to do black out nights is a marketing ploy.

Around here anyway there are specific performances that are relaxed for people with SEN, those without aren't excluded, but its a more inclusive environment for the comfort of those who wouldn't usually be able to attend. I can't speak for all autistic people, but I know my dd certainly prefers to be at those shows with people who are like her than the other shows.

That doesn't mean that people with Autism are excluded from attending any other show though just that these particular ones are more about the comfort of the audience.

There are people in the black community who would definitely prefer to attend a play about slavery with an audience who are mainly black, and it's great that there's somewhat of a choice to do that. Again, nobody will be excluded, but it's for those who would feel more comfortable, and that's a totally valid stance to have.

As a black person my initial reaction was "outrageous". Then I actually recalled a incident that sort of relates. I remember seeing two movies at Cinema "The Hateful Eight" and "12 Years a Slave". Both features a lot of racial slurs. I felt myself becoming more and more aware I was the only black person in cinema both times.

I particularly remember a moment in the Hateful Eight where something racist was said, but it was funny and it elicited a chuckle from people. My friend, I was with, said he felt a bit uncomfortable watching it with me and didn't want to react to something "incorrectly". It was a small cinema and I definitely felt "watched" in some way.

So if I, a pretty conservative black person can feel that. I'm probably not alone; and can actually understand the reasons for such nights.

I forgot to add that earlier about black people weaponising racism, as another way to shut down argument. The my best friends black trope has no relevance, I don’t care what your parents did or didn’t do.

The point of this thread is that for some black people, a ‘black out night’- which doesn’t actually stop anyone of any race attending for those at the back-, for some people is necessary, appropriate and incredibly helpful. Whether or not you would go to one is of no relevance. If you want to understand why for some black people that would want to, then fine. If you don’t agree, also fine. What you don’t get to do is tell someone else why they are wrong to feel how they feel about something that affects only them.

Exactly, if anyone said that, they would be called anti semitic.
But if replace non Jew and Jew, why is it not anti white then?

Because white people have not been the victims of historic oppression.

I really can't understand for the life of me why people are incapable of seeing why it's different.

Yes, that all makes sense - and that’s kind of what I was trying to say!

I absolutely get the need to uplift and encourage black theatregoers. I just think that saying “can white people attend on another night please?” is a slightly different thing.

Id have liked to have seen the emphasis on encouraging black people to attend, and reference to creating an inclusive environment- sort of the same way that it’s managed for SEN audiences. There’s no reference to neurotypical people, and no request for neurotypical people not to attend. I don’t think there was any need to ask white people not to come - the focus should have been about reaching out to black people who may have self-excluded for a variety of reasons.

I think that’s why this has attracted negativity - rather than being uplifting and inclusive, it’s being viewed as segregating.

The difference in the marketing is subtle, but I think it’s important.

Your husband isn't the appointed spokeman for black people, he's one opinion. You get even less of an opinion- I hate the 'I have a black friend/husband/dog walker' bullshit people use.
If this is the stuff you spout in front of your half black children I fear for them.

Does the UK have any connection with slavery?

Is this a joke, or are you genuinely this ignorant of British history?

I haven't actually seen the advertising for this particular play tbh so I can't comment on what the actual advertising has been.

However, I do know that in previous blackout events its more that the tickets were offered to various organisations and groups who have overwhelmingly black members rather than being on general sale and having a big banner beside that day or something.

I think it's fair enough to ask some groups of people to step aside to make sure that any minority group can have a meaningful experience together anyway.

I do.
Cheaper shows for people in receipt of certain benefits, e.g. what identifies families as pupil premium.

@PressureLikeATickTickTick you do realise that being married to a Black person does not automatically mean you aren’t racist?

In fairness, I’ve only seen a small amount of the PR so my perception may be skewed. I no longer live in London and I’m not black so when I’ve seen it mentioned, I’ve just skimmed past. I’m not scandalised or upset by the notion, but neither am I their target audience so I’ve not given it much headspace until this post.

I’d be really supportive of reaching out to groups and organisations to try and reach the target audience, in this case black theatre goers. I think positive encouragement is what’s needed - a message that this event IS for you etc. It’s essential to consider what the real barriers might be, and work to overcome those.

But I can’t get behind a simultaneous message of exclusion even if it’s well-intentioned unless it’s a safety issue (regardless of what group it’s aimed at). For example, at events like Let Women Speak I’d be happy to see supportive men there too, providing the focus remained on women’s voices. I think saying “don’t come” to anyone other than the target audience is unnecessary and divisive and detracts from the intention of uplifting the main group, black theatregoers in this example.

Happy to agree to disagree on this point.