Ex DH’s GF told my DD that her Autism was caused by a vaccine I gave her…

[RainingUK]

DD sees her father twice or three times per year for a couple of days out on each occasion (no overnights). We split up a long time ago and he has lived with a number of partners. Ex DH has settled over the last two years with a gf.

His sister says she is controlling and needs to accompany him wherever he goes and she has some “funny” ideas. I’ve been pretty open to this gf as my DD(13) liked her from the first time they met. She was the first gf to talk to her, show an interest in DD and talk about the things she enjoys.

Last time they visited (December), he said that he wasn’t keen on his gf coming into my house when dropping DD back after having lunch/shopping etc. I told him she was very much welcome. DD came back saying that gf had told her all about her anti-vax views etc. DD was balanced about this- has her head screwed on. They asked her to try to stay overnight with them at some point (history of not sleeping- ADHD/Autism).

ExDH made a big thing in the build up to his latest visit that it was just going to be them so they could spend 1:1 time together. Not DD’s suggestion or mine but I think DD was quite pleased. ExDH visited last weekend and gf was with him. She didn’t come to the house (excuse about stomach ache etc, which was fine). Ex DH plonked him self on the sofa like he owned the place and started spouting some really unpleasant, radical and racist stuff which I have never heard come out of his mouth before. DD and I challenged these views very strongly.

ExDH then told me that, at lunch, gf had told DD that her MMR vaccine had given her Autism. DD was a bit shaken by this but it quite scientific in her outlook and knew this had been disproved luckily. She has heard all of their theories about Covid endlessly. She spoke up but gf’s logic was, “You don’t seem autistic anyway.”

Gf had apparently gone around the shops with the Yuka app telling DD that she needs to clear out the makeup she has at home and she (kindly) bought her a Bert’s Bees lips balm, showing her on the app that it was “clean”. Im a long-term vegetarian who does talk about UPFs with DD etc but we are not obsessive.

DD had a huge meltdown the next day when they had gone. She let go and a lot of stuff came pouring about how ExDH had said that there was “a lot” she didn't know about me! She told me that I shouldn’t worry as she knows me inside and out so there’s nothing to say. Felt like a lot of pressure on her shoulders.

Situation with ExDH is that we split when DD was 19 months because he wasn’t present or being a parent to her. Turned out months afterwards that a local taxi driver confessed to my father that he had been visiting a different woman’s house every night. This was happening through the pregnancy too. Our split wasn’t acrimonious as I owned the house and simply asked him to leave. I was used to doing everything on my own by that point anyway. We have always been pleasant when we see each other because there’s no other way to be. We have had our blowouts over the phone when I’ve told him that he should be more involved.

AIBU to think that the radical views/racism/possible alienation are a serious concern? I’d like DD to try to stay over with them but I’m feeling very uncomfortable; more importantly, she has been made to feel uncomfortable. I know they’re totally entitled to their views but I feel worried.

I would be keeping your dd as far away as possible from her dad and his gf. Ask your dd what she thinks about his racist langue’s. I would then explain to your dd that the views on vaccines and autism are like his racist language: A symptom of very strange thinking. Plain wrong.

This is a pretty flippant comment from somebody who has self diagnosed via Dr Google.

Many people with autism are significantly disabled by it, including me. around 8/10 cannot live independently, and around 30% are learning disabled.

It's really crass and insensitive to use yourself and your alleged "neurospicy" husband as exemplars. You have no idea of the problems that people with actual autism can face. Most of us certainly cannot "do whatever we want and be fine". Many cannot "choose" to have friends or partners due to impaired social skills.

@RainingUK

You sound so calm and reasonable. Unfortunately your DD will come across people like this, and I think you are handling it very positively with her, and teaching her how to address it. It will hopefully give her strength and confidence to see that views like this are so misguided and wrong (in the majority view) - and she is better and stronger than this.

I broke off a long friendship with someone who became increasingly anti vax and was posting rubbish at the time I was about to vaccinate my son. I consider the views to be harmful.

As this person has views which are harmful, I think you have a strong case to insist that your DD isn’t exposed to those views. Can it be arranged that she only sees the people who are positive influences on her well being - on mutual ground, or at your house?

I think it’s a good message for DD to stand up and say “I strongly disagree with your views, they are harmful. I don’t want to be exposed or listen to them any more as they are upsetting to me and a great many other people.”

Can you set up a 'stupid things I heard today' thread or something on WhatsApp for just the two of you so she has somewhere to go to get the crazy out of her system so it's not too much?

I did that to deal with grief and the random things people say when they don't know how to be with you anymore. It was just a little thing but it really helped me not get so upset

Thank you for your messages. It is really helpful to hear your thoughts. Critical thinking/ avoiding the overnights/whatsapp group/hearing other opinions but stating her own beliefs all resonate. I think I’m keen to protect her from all of this for now.

Funnily enough, DD mentioned staying at her father’s earlier. She said that she wasn’t comfortable because she was worried about them saying things about me but also stopping her taking things like Melatonin.

I told her that we don’t know that they’d do that and she went on to say that gf had told her that she shouldn’t be taking medication for ADHD (DD’s choice to trial) and should control it with diet. Really, it makes me furious to think of someone DD has met 4 times telling her how to lead her life.

DD said she wouldn’t feel “safe” at their house. I asked why and she said they were racist and “scary”. She then broke down and said that she never wants to see them again. Said she needed Grandad (my Dad) so he came to give her a cuddle. I told her to hold that thought for now and that nobody is going to make her do anything.

I'd point out that the people who say they won't vaccinate their children in case they have Autism are actually saying that they'd rather risk their child dying than have Autism, which doesn't sound like something a loving parent would say. None of the anti vaxxers have had any justification when I asked if they'd rather have their child die than have a child like me.

Your daughter knows it's rubbish, but it is jarring having someone tell you that your disability is your parents fault.

Your daughter is being upset, are the visits in her best interest at the moment? Maybe something for her to think on if you don't want to make the decision for her.

Edit: Cross post and I think you know what to do to protect her and keep her safe. She's lucky to have a mother she can tell all of this too.

I think your DD is right to want to stay away from them and whatever it takes to support her in that she should get. People into these particular conspiracies have views that are not just misguided but disgusting and disturbing in the detail - and they never ever SHUT UP or talk about anything else. It’s very difficult for adults to maintain contact them, it must be far too much for a young teen.

@RainingUK I think given your recent update it would be madness to let her there overnight and thankfully DD has recognised herself she doesnt want to see them at the moment. Poor thing having to deal with all their batshitness at her age 😭😭 glad shes got sane people for cuddles and reassurance!!!

Thank you. She’s very stressed about it so we’ll just have to tackle it when/if he starts making noises about her staying. She wouldn’t normally see him until July (has never visited in March until now) when I take her back to our home town. I’d like to have it out with him at some point but don’t want to make things worse at this moment in time.

What is the imperative for your Dd to stay with her Dad? He sounds awful and the gf worse. I don’t think your Dd needs to feel she has to push herself to stay there.

The gf saying that about the vacccine and your ex trying to make out you are bad in some way is a terrible way to treat your Dd. Apart from the both being full of shit (which luckily your clever Dd can spot) it is always the wrong thing to do for a child emotionally.

I would keep a cool distance.

@RainingUK

Your daughter sounds incredibly perceptive - and utterly amazing. She has SO much more intelligence, sensitivity and strength than the people who are spouting these ignorant views at her. I think you should be very proud - well done her for taking a stance, the world needs people like her. X

It sounds like you’ve raised a wonderful girl and it’s lovely she feels safe enough to confide in you. At her age you let her “vote with her feet”. If she doesn’t want to go you support her whole heartedly and tell her you trust her decision making. If you’re being questioned as to why, you keep it brief but factual. “She says she feels uncomfortable when you talk about me and that some of your views about autism make her uncomfortable”. You don’t need to elaborate. You don’t need to repeat yourself. Say it once and leave it there.

She sounds like a lovely girl, and I hope you have been able to reassure her that she doesn't have to see them if she doesn't want to.

I realised I forgot to answer a few questions earlier:

• There is no court order. Longest he has gone without seeing DD is almost 11 months. I used to keep a book with details of their contact in, in case it went to court. I just have 100% custody by default; he’s never tried to have a regular pattern of contact.
• The staying over thing has cropped up because he is finally settled and is renting his own place with her, rather than bunking down with the latest gf. He feels he has a stable home to offer. It is also inferred that I wouldn’t “let her” go before. In reality, Melatonin has now allowed DD to stay over at others’ houses. She stayed for two nights at Scout Camp in Feb and is sleeping at a friend’s house for the first time tomorrow night. Despite her maturity and independence, sleeping away from our house has been her greatest challenge. My parents live next door and she still regularly struggles to stay over there and asks to return in the middle of the night.

Thanks all; some very kind words. I’m remaining vigilant and we will fade into the background for a bit and deal with this when he next makes contact!

I'm Autistic and have ADHD, as do my twin DDs (recently confirmed by diagnostic assessments for both, although I 'knew' from when they were very young).
Their father (my ex) is very anti assessment and diagnosis (although, he, himself, acknowledges that he is Neurodivergent?!).
I do worry about the messages he may convey to our twins (they're only 6), probably because of comments he's made to me within their hearing, such as "There is nothing wrong with them; anything that IS wrong with them is your fault". 🤦🏼‍♀️

Wrong thread

The thing is your DD and her Dad don't really have a father - daughter relationship, if she only sees him a handful of times a year then I really wouldn't be giving it this much thought, nor would I be encouraging overnights for her to people who are basically strangers.

She knows who you are, she knows the truth, she is more than old enough to decide how contact works and the arrangements that suit her. If she wants to stay in touch with the rest of his family then continue facilitating that as you have done, she may or may not decide to reduce contact with her Dad as time goes on now she's into the teen years of it's not a positive and worthwhile experience for her.

You also seem to have a lot of contact with him and know alot of what's going on in his life for someone you left a very long time ago and although that would be fantastic if it was things that benefitted DD or were about her general wellbeing and progress it all seems to be about him and his GF, I think if I were you I'd take a big step back you don't need that drama in your life and just have conversations about DD

As someone with a severely autistic nephew who will never lead an independent life,thank you for your valued insight.I have no time for people who gaily proclaim how wonderful their life is with undiagnosed autism.Their are many degrees of autism it’s not a one size fits all.Having watched the daily struggles the family go through,and will for the rest of his life I resent grown adults using their undiagnosed autism as some kind of badge of honour..

I don’t have much contact with him at all (though I do still regularly have to ask him to transfer the £150 per month maintenance-he won’t set it up as a regular payment). The last time I spoke to him, apart from a text asking for money, was December after his last visit. He maintains that he would leave his job if I went to CSA.

I am pretty invested, as I have carried him for 11 years, through endless girlfriends with violent exes on the scene and him in and out of work. It has been very hard raising a child by myself, especially one with complex needs. There have been times when I’ve contacted him for help, which he has not given. I’ve worked full time and really put my daughter first in every way. I share all psychiatry reports and updates on her academics with him and these remain unread. I tried to show him her latest report on Saturday but he waved it away.

This new set up was meant to be the big breakthrough in their relationship and my original AIBU was in ref to the fact that ExDH and gf are saying unsavoury things which have me worried. She doesn’t feel confident in staying with them three hours away. The gf features in all of this because DD has not seen him on his own since they got together.

I do try to keep out of the drama but it feels endless!

Who wants this next step in their relationship though OP? He doesn't seem fussed, DD doesn't sound overly bothered either. At 13 their relationship is pretty much concreted as what its going to stay as, he has had 11 years to get his act together and he hasn't.

You want him to be the father he simply isn't, nor does he have any intention of being. I know it's because you want the best for your DD but he has made his choices, he is unlikely to suddenly step up now. I would reduce the contact of things he has shown no interest in, no more reports etc unless he asks about them, no more arranging contact unless he makes the first move. Mourn the man you wanted to be her father as he doesn't exist and celebrate the role you have played in bring up such a lovely and astute sounding daughter. He is controlling you over the money, very unlikely he'll actually give up work, go through CMS and get the money you are owed, they review it annually which is useful.

I get it I've been a single parent to autistic DD since I found out I was pregnant, I know how exhausting it is. How nice it would be to share the load. Since D turned 12 I left contact arrangements solely up to her, she can see her dad as much or as little as she likes outside of prearranged events, generally she opts for Sunday afternoons 12-7pm. They do nothing but sit around and she largely goes to see her new preschool half sister. She has told me that although she likes visiting it's like going to see an Uncle and cousin rather than father and sister, enjoyable for a short amount of time but then ready to come home.

Thanks for PPs. You have all helped me a great deal. I’m sorry you’re in a similar situation Singleandproud. It is empowering but at the same time utterly exhausting!

The thing with this situation is that he almost smells when we back off (even though contact has only ever happened twice or three times per year) and he then starts sending me messages saying, “I will see my daughter “ as if I’ve done anything but facilitate. He lives three hours away, so unfortunately contact can’t happen ad hoc/be organised by DD.

DD contacted him this morning to say that she had been up late worrying about all of the things he and gf said at the weekend and asked him not to repeat them in front of her next time. She told him that he had disturbed her and she says that he just blamed me and said I , “kick off” about anything. He denied saying any of it, even the anti-Semitic/ Trump/paedophile stuff he was spouting at my house with both of us present. He started telling her, self-pityingly, that he was a “bad Dad” and that things were so hard for him. DD agreed that he was a bad Dad unfortunately, which he didn’t take very well. She told him that she didn’t want to hear nonsense about me and he totally denied saying anything.

He said that he is going to approach the authorities “for contact” but the bizarre thing is that nobody is stopping him. I know that DD would respond very badly to being forced to stay with them if she wasn’t comfortable. He has been pushing for her to stay recently. I suggested he spend more time with her during daylight hours and offered to drive her halfway to a big town where they could go out for the day or something.

She told Grandad that she feels that they could lace her food with something because they clearly want to eradicate people with disabilities! Obviously, this is a reach, but it shows how worried she is. She told me that they cannot stop talking about all of this stuff and it intensifies every time she sees them.

The next time they’re due to see each other is July when I take her West for a few weeks. He usually sees her for a few hours when we stay down there. I think that is probably all DD will want, if that. I just hope that we can keep things calm for the next few years.

He can go to the authorities all he likes she's over 12 and contact is for her benefit not his. The courts wouldn't look kindly on how he has managed things so far, sparse contact and being autistic combined with her age means they are very unlikely to put overnight contact in a contact order and even if they did she is old enough to refuse to go so I don't think you have anything to worry about there.

I'm sorry your DD is experiencing this though and it must be stressful for you too.

He's using court as a threat because he's been challenged.

You need to keep a record of the abuse she's been suffering and the explicit and implicit parental alienation that this pair has been engaging in.

If push comes to shove, you have the option of petitioning for the appointment of a guardian ad litem for DD.