Why do people not like using holiday clubs?

[Youdirtylittlehamster]

Speaking to ex-MIL. She's off with me. I don't know why. Later she comes to the point, why have I booked the DC's into holiday clubs when she could have them for free.
I don't want to tell her that it's because she doesn't do anything with them. Sometimes when I've picked them up she's let them be on their tablets all day, they haven't eaten any proper meals (once, just Hariono and crisps) they haven't washed or got changed, they aren't learning anything.
The reason I don't want to tell her is because I don't think she feels that any of this is important.
We fundamentally don't see eye to eye about this topic. She feels school holidays are for doing whatever the children want, with no limits or demands of them. She never worked when her children are school so doesn't get why I have to work them, and why I don't just tell my boss that I'm taking every school holiday off as 'I have children so surely they must understand'.

I like holiday clubs. I like the variety of the things they do. I like that they come home with stories and make new friends. My DD has EBSA at times, and it is much better to keep the routine of getting up in the week, getting dressed, having that separation from me. They do things there that I'm not good at like sports and baking. They meet kids from other schools and walks of life. Yes it is expensive but can be spread over a few months or budgeted for. If you are on UC then you can claim it back.

The amount of mums on single parent FB groups who limit their careers by only looking for term time jobs. Surely if you choose a job which pays 30k rather than 18K pro rata but you have to work some school holidays then you still end up better off?
I wonder if part of it is how they were brought up. I always went to holiday clubs, as my mum worked, so I don't think badly of them. The way some of my friends talk it's like I'm sending them down the pit!

I mean they tend to be more like £40 £50 quid per day near me and I have two kids so £400/£500 per week

I had to go to a lot of holiday clubs as a child and hated it but DD bloody loves it! She doesn’t need to go at all this year as I’m on mat leave but she’s insisting she still wants to do two of them. All depends on the child I guess!

Actually I haven't, but I'm not opposed to them.
However, my one duvet day now and again is not the same as day after day, week after week of a 15 yo needing to occupy themselves while their parent works.

Op I'm a sahm and I used to force my ds to go to them because I thought that he would be missing out. He hated it! He now has a group of friends who also hate going to camps. The one thing all these boys have in common is that there's a sahm parent. They would much rather be at home, doing things at their own leisure. And who says that they don't have a routine? Ds still does all the daily things he needs to do, we have activities out, trips arranged with his friends , lots of play dates with friends where this is impossible during the busy school week.
I also have a nanny for my younger baby, and she is here PT. She worked for many years with other families and always said the kids hated going to camps. It probably works for some but not everyone.

My children are now past the age for holiday clubs, but when they were younger, they went there from time to time. One was run at the local leisure centre, and another as an ad-on to a day nursery (basically a separate room/area on the same site).

Yes, they aren't the cheapest, but if your employer offers a salary sacrifice scheme for childcare vouchers, there can be decent savings to be made.
I never thought anything of the children going to these clubs - as long as the environment was good, and there seemed decent activities to do.

Although relatives helped out with odd days of childcare here and there (which I was very grateful for), predominantly childcare had to be paid for, and I was happy to do this - I always saw it as my responsibility to sort childcare....very simply, if you don't want to pay for/arrange, childcare, don't have kids!!

Some people seem to see it as a kind of God-given right that Grandparents etc. will step in and help out for free, personally I don't understand that mentality - the responsibility lies with the parent. (But of course if help is offered, it comes in very handy).

Grateful now I'm past this stage, but yes, overall experience of holiday clubs etc was positive.

I was a child in the 70s and there were no 'devices' and we were not allowed to watch TV in the daytime, so I do not think it is inevitable at all they will be on screens all day.As far as I xan remember we played at home inside or in ghe garden in the morning and went out somewhere in the afternoon.

@ageratum1

I was a child in the 70s and there were no 'devices' and we were not allowed to watch TV in the daytime, so I do not think it is inevitable at all they will be on screens all day.As far as I xan remember we played at home inside or in ghe garden in the morning and went out somewhere in the afternoon.

But again that relies on there being a parent who is present and not working to monitor and supervise. If you are working either out of home or at home it’s very difficult to police this. You either have to provide some sort of distraction or you have to physically remove all devices for the duration of an eight hour day. It’s not really sustainable to do that all day every day.

Yes, this is just daft. It's not a question of whether people can manage without screens when they don't exist. But rather of what's going to happen without very active supervision and provision of distraction, given that screens do exist. Examples from the 70s tell us nothing about that, because they can't.

@Vod

Examples from the 70s tell us nothing about that, because they can't.

I know. I get so irritated when people wheel out the "we were kicked out to play outside on our bikes all day/raid the dressing up box/do some drawing/make dens in the living room" argument. It's invariably the people who don't have to work through the summer holidays who trot out this trope. For better or worse it just ain't like that any more.

Duvet days and "unstructured" days ad hoc are absolutely fine but they're not a strategy for a seven week stretch of summer holiday where a parent can take maybe two weeks of leave. Those of us in this scenario have no choice but to use clubs.

So is thinking people just ‘choose’ a £18,000 job instead of a £30,000 job- like they are picking out curtains or something.

People do the jobs they have the skills for, that are available and that they are qualified for- if they can get them.

It’s a rare person who has multiple job offers, never mind where one pays twice what the other does and they can just pick one.

@Tatlockisthere

People do the jobs they have the skills for, that are available and that they are qualified for- if they can get them.

Quite. But also the idea that deliberately reducing your household income is automatically a good thing purely because it gives you more time with your children is highly questionable.

Yes there are advantages and particularly when you have small children but the trade offs in terms of what you can offer them are fairly major and they become more significant and more limiting as the kids get older.

More time hanging out at home might be a great thing short term when you have infants or primary school age children. When you have teenagers heading for higher education who are at school most of the time and fairly self sustaining when they are not, and when you are facing the prospect of supporting them through university, taking a minimum wage or low paid job just to have more unstructured time at home makes no sense at all.

Long term I would far prefer to have the means to offer my child more life opportunities than a few more days to make dens in the living room. If that means using holiday clubs, so be it.

@Thepeopleversuswork I agree and also I think people massively overestimate how much holiday club is even needed for most.

If you are a single parent without an involved ex and have a small annual leave allowance, that's one thing but most people have two annual leave allowances to play with.

I calculated it out of curiosity and my kids spend 3% of their year in holiday clubs. Of course people are entitled to make their own choices but I don't think that is such an extraordinary amount of time that it is worth going onto benefits or into low paid work to avoid.

Because my kids go to holiday clubs, I know lots of other children who do too and I don't see any children there every week of the holidays, lots of breaks and comings and goings.

I also think there's a bit of judgement about children's personalities going on. My children are very active and extroverted - that's just how they are. They're not better than more laid back children who enjoy pottering around the house. But they're not worse either and they don't need to be fixed. I would have hated some of the holiday clubs they choose when I was a child but they're not me.

I'm with you op. My dds went to the school holiday club and then the ymca one until last year. Now dd2 is 11 they don't need to be supervised as dd1 is 14 but they got a lot out of them over the years.

I agree kids need downtime but if family childcare is borderline neglectful it's not an option.

The last few years I would do a mix in the week so like at least 2 full days at holiday club, one day with grandma and 2 days where I would work from home.

YMCA does a trip once a week to a water park or theme park I might still send them on those this summer. Otherwise they have tried things they wouldn't have otherwise like street surfing and dodgeball and I was astonished how much dd1 enjoyed constant PE! The ymca staff who are often uni students fussed over dd1 and built trusting relationships with my kids with ease.

Mostly what I really empathise with is reliability. I have defaulted to holiday clubs because they won't f you around. They don't phong you to leave work early (unless kid is ill) and I can switch off knowing kids are entertained and eat at a proper time etc. it's a mental load issue really.

Are you talking about when you were a younger child ie. supervision needed, or a teenager?

Going back to the OP’s original point I do think some people are bizarrely anti holiday clubs. they have a really important role and good ones are fab. I have never seen any for £20 a day though. I budget £50.

Mine have had to go from the start so don’t really have a choice. A balance is good. I don’t think it is good to have 6 weeks with no structure but ideally I like to have one of us off for half-terms to give the kids a bit of a break even if it’s for a couple of days. Over Easter I haven’t had any leave so they’ve been in every day which isn’t my first choice. I’d have liked a couple of days to break it up but feel like the long weekend has helped with that.

Over the summer, we’ve got the following mix which should give some down time, some activity etc.

week 1: multi sports camp provider 1
week 2: theatre camp
week 3: grandparents
week 4: annual leave parent 1 but one child doing a 3 day music course
week 5; annual leave parent 2
week 6: multi sports camp provider 2

Maybe she can't get that 30k job. Maybe her child/ren can't go to those clubs (mine can't). Maybe some other valid reason I am not thinking of.

You can’t trust half the workers at holiday clubs I suspect she’s paid attention to a few scandals and feels they’d be safer with her

Lucky where we are in the Midlands. Ours is £15 per day at my Son’s school run by an external company. Was only £10 until this school holiday!

If I worked full time I’d split their time, not just because of the cost but I do believe kids need some down time. They like days where they aren’t rushed out of bed and taken somewhere, they like to play in the garden and do random things, if they did this say, Tuesday/Thursday, would it really be so bad?

Or maybe just parent your children & instill some ba

Phone decided to post itself!

Or maybe just parent your children, and instil some values. Children & adults should all be able to self regulate & not be reliant on 'being constantly entertained'
Even the boring jobs need to be done, part of life's lessons.
Reading is a great life skill to have!!

I agree mix where possible is better. A question- at what age did your DC start enjoying going to club? Or did they always enjoy?

I don’t agree with posters saying children need to have ‘down time.’ They’re not adults. When do you hear a child say ‘I need to have a rest and chill for an hour?’
Playing is learning and vice versa with a bit of tv watching and iPad playing thrown in.
Holiday clubs are a good idea and your MIL sounds a bit unimaginative or even lazy. Kids shouldn’t be left to their own devices all day. It’s irresponsible.
You are right to send your DC to holiday clubs, OP!

What do you mean by "maybe just parent your children"? I assumed when people were saying they leave them to their own free will it's because they were wfh at the same time?

Age 3 in a 3-hour club where he knew the coaches, he cried a bit on day 1 but said it was great, cried for a minute at drop-off on day 2 and was running in on day 3. Two other clubs age 4 he was a bit nervous going in but had a blast. He now demands specific camp slots age 6, and I try to align dates with friends. He does still ho0e to hear that someone else is going on the same day, but the specific camp is more important to him.
If your kid goes with a friend and still doesn't like it, then it could be the wrong style of camp for them.