Why do people not like using holiday clubs?

[Youdirtylittlehamster]

Speaking to ex-MIL. She's off with me. I don't know why. Later she comes to the point, why have I booked the DC's into holiday clubs when she could have them for free.
I don't want to tell her that it's because she doesn't do anything with them. Sometimes when I've picked them up she's let them be on their tablets all day, they haven't eaten any proper meals (once, just Hariono and crisps) they haven't washed or got changed, they aren't learning anything.
The reason I don't want to tell her is because I don't think she feels that any of this is important.
We fundamentally don't see eye to eye about this topic. She feels school holidays are for doing whatever the children want, with no limits or demands of them. She never worked when her children are school so doesn't get why I have to work them, and why I don't just tell my boss that I'm taking every school holiday off as 'I have children so surely they must understand'.

I like holiday clubs. I like the variety of the things they do. I like that they come home with stories and make new friends. My DD has EBSA at times, and it is much better to keep the routine of getting up in the week, getting dressed, having that separation from me. They do things there that I'm not good at like sports and baking. They meet kids from other schools and walks of life. Yes it is expensive but can be spread over a few months or budgeted for. If you are on UC then you can claim it back.

The amount of mums on single parent FB groups who limit their careers by only looking for term time jobs. Surely if you choose a job which pays 30k rather than 18K pro rata but you have to work some school holidays then you still end up better off?
I wonder if part of it is how they were brought up. I always went to holiday clubs, as my mum worked, so I don't think badly of them. The way some of my friends talk it's like I'm sending them down the pit!

Like I said, they used it for family holidays - all of which were very structured and filled with nice wholesome activities.

I was at private school, so had about 18 weeks off a year compared to their six. So, yes, unless we were away as a family, I had to go to holiday care. And that was 8am-6pm, Monday to Friday. The same as in school (in fact, it was at school which makes it worse, lol).

And it wasn't uncommon - the same kids went to holiday club year in, year out. And it was always full.

@hangingonfordearlife1 money orientated? I'm just about managing as it is. £6 left for the rest of the month.
My choices for school holidays are
1.) holiday club £40 per day for two kids
2.) MiL who will expect picking up and dropping off, unlimited access to sweets, this includes unfiltered YouTube access, 18 rated games that her son's own such as GTA for my five and seven year old. No limits on screens. She also forgets and cancels last minute.
3.) unpaid leave (so minus £80 a day)
It's not 'being sniffy', it's my life.
People who can afford to work part time are privileged. That's a fact. Unless they or their child has medical, physical, mental conditions or are neurodiverse, or you are a teacher or T.A then you have the luxury of being part time. I'm not taking it from people with a whole other persons wage to contribute to the household because you have no idea about the burden of being the sole earner.

I think it’s a bit sad I have to explain this (unless some people are being deliberately obtuse), but unstructured downtime for a child might look something like this-
lie in
lazy breakfast
walk to shops or play- either in garden or indoors if weather bad
help make lunch
hour or so TV
Help do a few jobs, or play indoors (Lego, craft, den making etc) or garden
Maybe choose something for dinner and help make it
eat dinner
watch movie
bed

But the whole point is that it’s up to them- maybe apart from mealtimes- I might ask if they want to help with food prep, gardening or jobs but if they don’t then I am not going to re-arrange my day to accommodate them, they either find something to do (not screen based) or they get bored. I might say that if they help me with a few jobs I will take them to the park or out on bikes but that’s it. It helps that they’ve got a decent amount of toys, trampolines etc and we have a garden admittedly. But it does not mean a day on screens.

For me a day of unstructured downtime (if I am without kids) might mean a walk, a bit of DIY, tidying a problem cupboard or going for coffee. I absolutely do not sit in my PJs watching homes under the hammer all day, the point is that nothing is planned so I’m not dashing about the place and I’m on my own schedule.

I was beginning to think I was going a bit mad with trying to explain unstructured downtime, @Heronwatcher

I think some people are genuinely being a bit obtuse, or somehow have it in their heads that children can't have unstructured downtime without sitting in front of a screen (which is only an option if you give them unlimited access to said screen in the first place, surely?).

I agree - people do seem to look down on me for using holiday clubs. Like i am doing it out of choice - but we don't have grandparents and we both work FT so it's just how it has to be!

@Youdirtylittlehamster Where is your kids’ dad (your ex-MIL’s son) in all this?

Your phrasing is pretty offensive - why can't you just say something doesn't appeal to you without referring to self harm?

Anyway, children can only spend time on screens if you...give them access to screens. It's quite easy to take away the iPads or the SKY box or whatever.

I worked term time minimum wage whilst mine were in primary because I valued spending the time with them in the holidays. It’s really not that odd.

I don’t work. My DDs all have each other and we still use holiday clubs! Not all the time but we do book girls into specific ‘camps’ which are generally an extension of their usual extra curriculars. So things like tennis camp, stage school camp etc.
We also go away on holiday, do days out, days at home and have days with friends. DD1 & 2 were devastated to be missing their musical theatre Easter school this year as we are abroad!

And OP is a nurse who is clearly contributing to society and teaching her kids that women can work hard and have a career too. Why would anyone judge her or make her feel like she's doing a bad job by using a holiday club!

Sorry I didn't mean to be offensive, it's a fairly common turn of phrase but anyway.

Not so workable to remove all screens when you WFH for nine plus hours a day.
Yeah you can limit the screens a bit but not workable to completely remove them unless you want a pissed off child hammering on the door most of the day.

My broader point is that it's really easy to talk about the benefits of lovely "unstructured downtime" when you have either supportive family or don't have to work most of the time to keep the lights on. The reality isn't quite so much fun.

I worked term time minimum wage whilst mine were in primary because I valued spending the time with them in the holidays. It’s really not that odd.

I agree, it's not odd at all. There are plenty of people who value spending time with their children but are unable to for financial reasons. I presume you either had support from someone or from the welfare system.

@Heronwatcher my children would be so grouchy if I tried that sort of day. I have attempted it occasionally when I have been unwell or had a work emergency and it's not gone well at all.

My kids can do a half day of pottering around the house but they are so much happier and calmer if they also get out for something even if it's just a playdate in the park with a football.

I guess they take after me as that sort of day doesn't appeal to me in the slightest

@CharlotteBog

I agree, it's not odd at all. There are plenty of people who value spending time with their children but are unable to for financial reasons. I presume you either had support from someone or from the welfare system.

This. I really dislike this recurring trope that people who use childcare or summer clubs "don't value time with their children". It's so misogynistic and simplistic.

Of course people love spending time with their children. It sounds delightful to take a chilled lower paid job so you can be there for every milestone and do all the summer childcare etc of course it does but in practice that is only possible if a) you have a breadwinning spouse or partner b) you are very independently wealthy or retired or c) you are on benefits. Clearly a large number of women don't fall into this category. It seems astonishing to have to be explaining this.

I accept that lots of people clutch their pearls at the prospect of using the dreaded "structured childcare" and obviously if you can afford not to have to do it lucky you, I envy you. But a bit of empathy, recognition of the lack of choice other people have and the ability to read a room wouldn't go amiss.

Well, as with everything, I suppose it depends on the child, their personality and their interests.

I personally don't see the issue with kids spending the odd day on screens but I appreciate it's not everyone and many people on MN would think that was absolutely appalling parenting.

Overall, I think a mixture of activities is best if at all possible. I don't think it does anyone any good to have all their time planned out for them, but equally spending days at home with nothing to look forward to isn't great either.

I think I struggled because I spent all my holidays doing nice "structured" activities and from the outside it probably looked great - but I absolutely hated it and even began to dread the holidays because of it. I think if I'd had more of a mixture, I wouldn't have minded the clubs so much.

@spriots but I am not talking about occasions when I am ill or trying to work- I agree in those types of situations expecting kids to amuse themselves is probably not a good idea- and a club might be better. What I am talking about is an unstructured day with an active engaged parent around to chat, interact with activities when asked “mum look at this” and do some activities alongside the kids- like the walk, cooking, watching the movie etc, and breaking up fights when necessary. But the whole point is that I am not organising them or taking them to soft plays and various other activities- they have to decide what to do themselves and then get on with it with minimal intervention from me.

A lot of kids don’t like this sometimes- mine included- but they have got a lot better at it as we’ve done it more and now they can amuse themselves (with a bit of obligatory moaning of course). But I think that’s part of the answer to the OP’s question really- that kids have got out of practice to make their own fun and holiday clubs are part of the issue that some people perceive. Of course you do what you have to do, and holiday clubs are fine (especially if balanced but) I think people are trying to answer why some people wouldn’t use holiday clubs out of choice if they can manage without them.

@fieldsofbutterflies mine wouldn't have anything to look forward to if I took holidays off as I wouldn't have any money

Same! Individually either of them would be ok with a day like that. But together there would be a LOT of fighting. They're both very active and need to burn their energy or they are very hard work.

It's very dependent on the personality of the child isn't it? As an introverted, anxious child I was happy in the holidays reading, drawing, chatting to my mum or playing make believe games in the house or garden with my sibling. I went to a holiday club a couple of times but would have hated any club that involved sports or loud team games. We were lucky to have involved grandparents who would look after us sometimes and do things like walks, trips to the park or places of interest, baking, jobs in the garden etc.

My two on the other hand are ultra-active extroverts. They want to be with other children or to be 'busy'. Again we are very lucky to have enthusiastic, active grandparents albeit ones who don't live nearby. But I could never send mine to a grandparent for regular holiday care if they just sat them in front of the TV with sweets.

@Heronwatcher I understand what you're saying but I disagree - I think children just have different personalities like adults do. Mine do not enjoy or benefit from whole unstructured days like that - and I understand that because neither do I!

It's not that they can't do it at all but without something to look forward to, even if it's a fairly low key outing, they don't have a good day. I don't either - I never don't have a plan for a day.

I think also there's an underlying assumption that the children don't have a choice - mine get plenty of choices. They choose which holiday club they like, within the holiday club there is often a choice of activities, on a day home with one of us we will discuss what we do the next day. I don't just book them into stuff without any discussion

Don't you use some of your annual leave to cover the school holidays?

I think also there's an underlying assumption that the children don't have a choice - mine get plenty of choices. They choose which holiday club they like, within the holiday club there is often a choice of activities, on a day home with one of us we will discuss what we do the next day. I don't just book them into stuff without any discussion

I think if you're in a position to choose from multiple clubs and activities within them, then you're very lucky.

Yep. Unlike Mumsnet children, mine aren't exhausted by school either.

I don't think I had properly realised until this thread that some young children enjoy "chilling" all day (I assumed this was code for screen time) but apparently my children are just defective. Perhaps I should send them back for a refund!

Time to be bored is the single most important thing you can give to your children. Creativity comes from boredom it doesn't come from bring directed in structured activities all the time

Agree - we have one holiday club near us and it’s not open every day of the holidays.