Why do people not like using holiday clubs?

[Youdirtylittlehamster]

Speaking to ex-MIL. She's off with me. I don't know why. Later she comes to the point, why have I booked the DC's into holiday clubs when she could have them for free.
I don't want to tell her that it's because she doesn't do anything with them. Sometimes when I've picked them up she's let them be on their tablets all day, they haven't eaten any proper meals (once, just Hariono and crisps) they haven't washed or got changed, they aren't learning anything.
The reason I don't want to tell her is because I don't think she feels that any of this is important.
We fundamentally don't see eye to eye about this topic. She feels school holidays are for doing whatever the children want, with no limits or demands of them. She never worked when her children are school so doesn't get why I have to work them, and why I don't just tell my boss that I'm taking every school holiday off as 'I have children so surely they must understand'.

I like holiday clubs. I like the variety of the things they do. I like that they come home with stories and make new friends. My DD has EBSA at times, and it is much better to keep the routine of getting up in the week, getting dressed, having that separation from me. They do things there that I'm not good at like sports and baking. They meet kids from other schools and walks of life. Yes it is expensive but can be spread over a few months or budgeted for. If you are on UC then you can claim it back.

The amount of mums on single parent FB groups who limit their careers by only looking for term time jobs. Surely if you choose a job which pays 30k rather than 18K pro rata but you have to work some school holidays then you still end up better off?
I wonder if part of it is how they were brought up. I always went to holiday clubs, as my mum worked, so I don't think badly of them. The way some of my friends talk it's like I'm sending them down the pit!

just to add some parent do take a pay cut happily to spend time with their children. You seem very money orientated where as a lot of other parents would put their child infront of earning an extra 10/20k. we just about manage on our salaries

you do have a choice mother in law offered

Our kids love their holiday clubs. They usually have a week at an art based one where they work on a particular style of drawing/painting, a water sports based one with sea kayaking, coasteering and similar and then a dance camp for one and a residential film/drama one for the other. We also don’t really do tons of “downtime” round the house weeks we are off with them. The odd day sure but typically we get out to the beach/parks/national trust, arrange play dates, go to museums/have day trips on the train etc. I find the kids just get sullen and snappy with too much time in the house. We are in today and have played a couple of board games this morning then we are all having a chill hour and will do some Lego later this afternoon. I also tend to get them involved in jobs round the house and encourage them to play in garden, read, paint, craft etc. I do feel like on days in we all (me included) are on screens too much and it isn’t the best

Unless family childcare is 100% reliable and your relative looks after your dc in a way that you approve of, professional childcare is a better bet - it comes with fewer strings and judgements at any rate.

That said, you sound a bit sniffy about term time working - not everyone has good childcare options available and sometimes provision is both patchy and expensive.

I think you are right to not leave the dc with mil if she doesn't do with them what you'd like, but I don't think kids always need to be busy. Doing nothing or having no set commitments can actually be very good for children. They need to learn to entertain themselves or relax , without constant stimulation and provision of activities.

Why is it madness to suggest that some children thrive on unstructured downtime during the holidays?

”Unstructured downtime” can mean a great deal of things though can’t it?

People talk about it as if it was an unambiguous good thing and sometimes it is. But quite a lot of the time it means sitting around watching TV or YouTube or playing XBox. In no known universe are those things preferable to being in a holiday club.

Why not?

Nothing wrong with relaxing for an hour or so playing computer games or watching TV.

We don't have to be engaged all the time.

Nothing wrong with relaxing for an hour or so playing computer games or watching TV.

There are 24 hours in a day.
I think the people who are in support of kids having down time/unstructured days etc are likely accepting that there will be A LOT more than 1 hour a day of xbox etc, especially in the years where they don't need a lot of supervision but are too young to be independent.

@WittiestUsernameEver

It’s totally fine if it is a couple of hours or days yes. Not if it’s several weeks.

Whats missing from this discussion is what working parents who don’t have “the village” available to them are supposed to do.

Its all very well romanticising “boredom” and “unstructured downtime” if you have grandparents to pick up the slack or you can take long holidays to hang out with your kids but for some of us “unstructured downtime” would basically equate to weeks of tv as babysitter.

The choice available to me as a FT working single parent is a) holiday clubs or b) me working in one room with my DD looking at screens all day unless I run in to stop her (which I can’t do because I am on calls). It’s a no brainer for me.

Again...I don't see the issue of in holidays kids spending a bit more time relaxing and doing 'nothing' by watching TV etc.

It's really isn't the end of the world and kids do not need to be actively engaged in things all the time. If adults are allowed to chill after kids bedtime by just sitting around and reading, watching TV etc then so are kids.

Don't you all do this on holiday? Just sit around a bit more, watch a bit more TV, read more, do fewer activities?

Yes, but that's as a working parent. Childcare whilst working is not the same

I'm talking about when everyone is off work/school and just having a week at home.

Even if kids went to GPs for 5 days out of the Easter holidays and all they did was sit around and watch TV, potter at home.... It really isn't awful.

The problem is when kids are sat staring at screens for 3+ hours every evening and all weekends (which is the reality for kids I know) they come back to school after a weekend and all they did was play Xbox etc. those are the "problem" screens. Not eh kid who is usually busy and engaged spending a few more hours on screens at school hols.

That depends on the holiday club, as well as the games they're playing and the things they're watching on YouTube, surely?

I genuinely don't why unstructured downtime is only "okay for a couple of hours or days", either, or do you really fill all annual leave with lots of structure and planned activities?

I don't think I have ever done absolutely nothing with a day of leave now that you say it..

It's not always highly structured but yes I would always do something with a day off. I might go for a long walk, meet a friend, go to a museum, that kind of thing

Unstructured downtime doesn't literally mean sitting at home and doing absolutely nothing all day, though

There's a few different points in your post.

You mention your mil. Yes I would agree up to a point that if you've found a good holiday club that works for you and your dc enjoy it, it might be preferable to lounging around all day at grannies.

You made another point about term time only jobs. I have a term time job. My children didn't always like holiday clubs, they could be pricey and didn't always work within working hours. I've always done things with them and then maybe a week's holiday camp during the Summer hols.

I also think that some downtime and lazy days are fine.

So it's a case of doing what works best for your family.

I am not sure if I understand how you are defining it.

But in all honesty, I wouldn't take a day off as annual leave and not have any plans.

To me, it means a day at home where you can just potter and do whatever you fancy without any restrictions on your time, or without needing to follow someone else's agenda.

You could choose to go out all day, or spend it on your pajamas, but the point is you have a choice. I just think it's so important for everyone, within reason, to have days where they can just "be".

Well, maybe you should try it. It's actually quite nice to do not much all day and do whatever takes your fancy on the day.

Doesn't really appeal to me. I enjoy an hour or two like that but I prefer to have some plans.

But the point is that you have a choice, whereas children don't.

If you want to fill your days then that's absolutely fine, but children don't have the same freedom you to unless their parents actively choose to allow it.

But no children are in holiday club for the entirety of all school holidays - it's not an either/or, they get a bit of both.

Maybe it's genetic but my kids definitely don't enjoy days with no plans either though - they end up in a poor mood if we try the just stay at home and chill thing

Mine’s 18 now but I remember some people reacting negatively to her in holiday clubs. I think it’s a combo of not having used them and in some cases wanting to justify why they couldn’t work with school age kids.
Lots used to be word of mouth so if you weren’t in the loop you might think there were few options.
Mine still had time off with me and time with her grandma.
Her school ran one for a few weeks each summer which was free play and a few trips out. She liked that they all played together.
She also did a dance one, gymnastics etc. Made friends, tried new things and as got older enjoyed helping with little ones.
I used to save most of my leave for hols other than summer as holiday care was plentiful and varied in summer.

Lots of children are in holiday club for the whole holidays, with the exception off the odd week where their parents are on holiday and they go away as a family.

I was one of them - my holidays were either spent in organised childcare or away on (very structured) family holidays. Even weekends were spent doing structured activities.

I've gone the opposite way as an adult

@fieldsofbutterflies

I genuinely don't why unstructured downtime is only "okay for a couple of hours or days", either, or do you really fill all annual leave with lots of structure and planned activities?

As I said before, it depends what you mean by "unstructured downtime" and how long it is going on for.

I think a couple of hours dossing about on YouTube is absolutely fine. But if it's the default, day in and day out with nothing else planned it's not fine at all.

Everyone's talking about the benefits of "downtime" but there's downtime and downtime and just leaving your kids in front of a screen for weeks on end is not good downtime.

I do definitely fill annual leave days with something, yes. I work very long hours and get very little leave in the year. If I am lucky enough to get a day's leave there's no way I'm wasting it watching TV all day.

I don't think that is common at all. Most parents get 4-6 weeks annual leave and don't use it all together. So a lot more than the "odd week" off. I know a lot of children whose parents use holiday clubs and not one is there that often.

What did your parents do with their annual leave?

I don't think anyone on here is saying children should spend weeks just sitting in front of screens, though

They're saying that having some time to themselves to choose what they want to do with their days is just as important as days where things are planned and structured.

There's nothing wrong with choosing to fill your days but the point is that it's a choice, and people aren't wrong for choosing to waste a day or two watching TV if that's what makes them happy. Life doesn't always have to be filled with structure and purpose.