To always go off people

[Superlambaanana]

Posting from phone app so can't add voting, so you'll just have to comment

• YABU and are weird for changing your mind about people or
• YANBU for quickly going off people because a lot of people really actually are twats.

I meet a lot of new people every day because of my particular job and just, as all people do, through life in general. I always start off thinking people are lovely, but almost always go off them very quickly.

Some people just disappoint, so I probably have too high expectations.

But in other cases, it's only after I've thought about the encounter that I realise the person is actually a twat. So perhaps I'm naive or slow to assess people. I have a proper grown up job so I can't be completely thick though.

Here's an example. An older man started chatting to me on the train the other day. Just small talk. He seemed very nice, talked about where he lived and it turned out it's not far from me. His stop came first and he said 'oh don't be offended if I walk past you as I'm very short sighted'. So I said, 'ok well I'll be sure to say hello!'. And I meant it when I said it, thinking, what a nice friendly man!

Literally about 5 minutes after he got off I'd done a U-turn in my head and resolved never to speak to him if I saw him again. I realised he had literally spent the entire conversation talking about himself, his foreign holiday home, how rich he was, how successful his children were etc. and he hadn't asked a single question about me or said anything which wasn't thinly disguised as a boast designed to big himself up.

But while we were actually chatting (well mostly him talking, me listening in this example) I felt he seemed very nice.

I've noticed this happening with lots of people. They seem lovely in the moment when we're first chatting, and it's only on reflection I think 'hang on, they said X and that was really twattish'.

Why don't I seem to be able to spot it in the moment and be immediately less friendly back to these people?!

Oh well, if you see me for what I am, I won't argue with that @illbehonestnow

I don't know. I just don't give it a second thought. I'm weary about everyone and do not judge on a first encounter, even if they appear nice- you may never know. I just exchange pleasantries, talk for a little bit then I am on my way. Honestly, you can be friends with someone for years and realise too late that you didn't know them at all.

You sound like really hard work.

Why are you expecting deep meaningful reciprocal conversations from a stranger on a bus?

I think it's a bit weirder than you think people are nice when you barely know them!

I might have a nice conversation with someone, but I don't think they're good or nice until I know them properly.

I feel exactly the same OP. I never like anyone or get on with anyone for very long. I’m also a people pleaser and I had narcissist abusive parents. There must be a connection with growing up worried about being honest or giving an opinion at all. When you see the reality of the world and what people are like deep down these days, you realise the good people are far and few between. People are more selfish and unkind than ever before. I keep my circle close and prefer being alone with my immediate family for this very reason.

Yes this is it. I don't even think many, if any of these people would react aggressively/ create conflict if I didn't fawn over them, but I seem preprogrammed to do it anyway.

@PoochiesPinkEars
"I think it is possible to recognise an issue can be a brain processing (ND) thing and still not expect to get away with treating people badly, but hope to be cut some slack, have chance to put things right or take time to come up with the right response.

If someone is abrupt with you and it feels rude, and you know they meant to be rude (cos they are an arsehole), or, know they don't have good social skills through no fault if their own, but are trying and will apologise if they made you feel bad... Those are two different things.

It is also different if said person with poor social skills doesn't give a toss if they upset you and expects you to always let things slide no matter the impact on you 'just cos' - also an arsehole.

Meanwhile pp on here are relating to your upbringing and noticing that they also have similar patterns of behaviour hardwired through their horrible formative experiences.

Whether your mind reacts a certain way because of its innate wiring structure or learnt through trauma the net result can be similar.
In fact there is evidence to show that behaviour patterns ingrained through trauma and some ND traits can be very similar if not indistinguishable (though the root cause may be different).

So, for you, if there is a recognisable inability to view your interactions objectively in the moment and formulate opinions and responses accordingly during rather than after an interaction, that's true whether you were born that way or made that way. And actually the ND community are knowledgeable on these issues and have some excellent personal tools already identified which could be helpful.

So, although attributing things to neurodiversity too often in your opinion, happens to be your own personal bugbear, and @Grumblevision touched that nerve... the fact remains that, it's at least a comparable issue even if it's not behind what's going on for you, and you might be closing your mind to some useful sources of excellent strategies to reduce how often you find yourself doing this.

Instead you could recognise that all people who struggle with certain things have stuff in common and may therefore be a good source of valuable life knowledge."

I've re-quoted your reply in its entirety because it is was so considered and compelling. Thank you I really genuinely appreciate it.

You have made me think and I will be more open to learning from others in this way as a result.

Just to explain why this does touch a nerve for me - I'm afraid I have only encountered people using ND as an excuse for anything and everything or a way to access benefits (and being brazen about hamming it up to do so).

I have some relatives who may well be ND, but they actually have no interest in being diagnosed or talking about it, even though they will occasionally casually refer to themselves as being 'odd'. They are 'posh'/ privileged so I suppose it doesn't impact their lives but it's very obvious they are socially awkward.

I am weary of the constant dialogue about ND and ADHD with little similar talk about how to function in a way which is considerate and recognises we all have to share the planet with other people. We do owe our fellow humans the courtesy of being friendly and generous. Too often those I encounter who have been diagnosed as ND are focussed on what others owe them, not what they might do for others.

However, I can appreciate a considerate reply and I will certainly think on this more now so thanks @PoochiesPinkEars.

But I do think almost all new people/ strangers are nice when I'm talking to them! I don't mean I form some deep opinion of them. Just that I generally find new people pleasant when I first meet them.

Narcs are famous for their lack of empathy, aren't they?

You're a good illustration of how the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, op.

This is an interesting thread op. I’m always fascinated about what’s going on in other people’s heads. 😂

Im no expert in the human psyche but would it help to accept that everyone is flawed?
So they may well be a decent person but they have a habit of droning on about their chosen subject without reading the room, or a compulsion to exaggerate, be a bit of a drama queen or show off, you might not agree with all their opinions.

Realising they have character flaws doesn’t necessarily mean they have bad intentions or are a bad person.
You might not want to be their friend but you might be too hasty in thinking you’ve figured them out- and written them off as a “bad apple”.
They haven’t tricked you into thinking they’re a nice person, they are just presenting their best side when you meet them?

I don’t think you’re odd or abnormal and it sounds as though you can form healthy relationships. Having self awareness of your own foibles is key I think. We’re all are product of our own experiences (good and bad).

@SmileyClare
"Realising they have character flaws doesn’t necessarily mean they have bad intentions or are a bad person.
You might not want to be their friend but you might be too hasty in thinking you’ve figured them out- and written them off as a “bad apple”.
They haven’t tricked you into thinking they’re a nice person, they are just presenting their best side when you meet them?"

Yes, I definitely agree it's a superficial and unreliable assessment both at the point of meeting someone and afterwards. And you're right that probably if I got to know the person I would start to see a balance across their whole personality and probably come down on the side of liking them.

It's just surprising though how many people are happy to say something which reveals an unpleasant view (homophobia, sexism, intolerance etc) in a first encounter. They do it subtly and so perhaps don't realise they're giving away their prejudices. And obviously the point is it's so subtle I don't catch on until later.

Some on this thread have accused me of being anti ND - ableist I think was the term used. I am not convinced by all the ND diagnoses out there so I am a sceptic. But I know that's a controversial view and I wouldn't dream of dropping it into a brief encounter with someone I'd just met.

This has recently happened to me. I thought someone was friendly and wanted to show them a photograph of something and they were not interested. It was to do with some flowers they contributed to and had not seen what they looked like and I had a photo of them and said oh the flowers that were sent were lovely and they said oh not seen them. I would have thought they would want to see what they had contributed to and was waiting for them to say oh lets see the photo but they did not so I did not show them because I figured if they were really interested they would have asked. How can you not want to see what you have contributed to and paid money towards. odd It is as if they only did it because they had to not because they wanted to so they could not care less what they looked like I dunno

YABU. You sound like hard work and also very chippy.

Why are you not convinced?

Oh I go off everyone eventually. I generally keep people at arms length which is nice, I like everyone there, but once they start creeping closer and sharing their real views and bragging/complaining/slagging people off/giving me unsolicited advice, I begin the phase out.

I spend more time than your average person at the hospital and wear my earphones even when I'm not listening to anything so people don't talk to me 😆

@LipikarAP because I think it's an intelligence issue and/ or a bad parenting issue (mollycoddling) and/ or selfishness/ attention seeking/ navel gazing issue.

I don't believe the way people behave is something they have zero control over and therefore should be given a free pass to act abominably towards others.

Just look at the thread on here for women with ND partners. They complain their partners are lazy, selfish, have 'special' hobbies they must spend hours doing alone, treat them badly etc and yet these men are excused and pandered to because they are apparently ND.

I've met too many parents who are convinced their dcs are ND yet it is clear as day that they are awful parents who have caused their children to behave in bizarre ways (often these are great people but terrible parents nonetheless).

Or worse people who are more focused on the disability payments which allow them to have a free car and higher rate benefits and the extra exam time afforded to their children to give them an advantage than they are on their children's actual welfare or future.

Where were all the ND teenagers when I was a teenager, when my parents and grandparents were teenagers? (I don't believe the 'greater awareness' tropes.) Where are all the ND children in developing countries? The epidemic of ND seems to have coincided with western, middle class, comfort and parenting styles which place the child in a position of power they have not yet earned the right or ability to exercise, while simultaneously holding back their social and emotional development as resilient, rounded and capable individuals. The result is very babyish older children who lack the resilience and maturity of children at the same age in previous generations.

I find that any gentle challenge is met with wild over reaction from people who are ND believers. Like the trans debate, this appears to be a tactic to shut down any dissenting views or discussion.

And finally, intelligence and IQ seem to be becoming taboo subjects. We are not all capable of the same level of thought, comprehension and application of knowledge. I think it's not ND, it's IQ and that it's not ADHD, it's appalling parenting.

So yes, I am very sceptical about it all. But willing to listen to a rational counter argument if such a thing exists.

You clearly are over investing - you've given considerable thought to it and started a thread on it.

I think this may be a 'you' issue. You sound critical and intolerant. I suspect some people are having similar thought processes given some of your unsympathetic views further down the thread.

Where are all the ND children in developing countries? No shit. I can't imagine why developing countries aren't concentrating on and reporting neurodiversity rather than focusing on survival.

It's fascinating to learn about other people's internal lives. Personally I don't understand the need to categorise people who I don't need to depend on emotionally in any way into 'nice' and 'not nice'. Like tradesmen, casual acquaintances, work colleagues. I don't need to have an opinion on whether they are good or bad. Even before you get into the fact that humans display a huge range of behaviour in different contexts, someone who's a total dick at work might be nice at home and vice versa...it's just honestly not necessary to care. I do not have an opinion on whether the guy who unblocked my drain is nice. He did it, I said cheers mate, that was it. Frees up a lot of headspace for thinking about more interesting things, like a recipe for chicken satay or some old Vic & Bob sketches etc.