To always go off people

[Superlambaanana]

Posting from phone app so can't add voting, so you'll just have to comment

• YABU and are weird for changing your mind about people or
• YANBU for quickly going off people because a lot of people really actually are twats.

I meet a lot of new people every day because of my particular job and just, as all people do, through life in general. I always start off thinking people are lovely, but almost always go off them very quickly.

Some people just disappoint, so I probably have too high expectations.

But in other cases, it's only after I've thought about the encounter that I realise the person is actually a twat. So perhaps I'm naive or slow to assess people. I have a proper grown up job so I can't be completely thick though.

Here's an example. An older man started chatting to me on the train the other day. Just small talk. He seemed very nice, talked about where he lived and it turned out it's not far from me. His stop came first and he said 'oh don't be offended if I walk past you as I'm very short sighted'. So I said, 'ok well I'll be sure to say hello!'. And I meant it when I said it, thinking, what a nice friendly man!

Literally about 5 minutes after he got off I'd done a U-turn in my head and resolved never to speak to him if I saw him again. I realised he had literally spent the entire conversation talking about himself, his foreign holiday home, how rich he was, how successful his children were etc. and he hadn't asked a single question about me or said anything which wasn't thinly disguised as a boast designed to big himself up.

But while we were actually chatting (well mostly him talking, me listening in this example) I felt he seemed very nice.

I've noticed this happening with lots of people. They seem lovely in the moment when we're first chatting, and it's only on reflection I think 'hang on, they said X and that was really twattish'.

Why don't I seem to be able to spot it in the moment and be immediately less friendly back to these people?!

Well you sort of do have more information later.

So for example, it's
Stranger: "chatty, chatty chatty"
Me: "oh wow how interesting"

Later on... I realise that what they were doing was actually boasting/ obfuscating/ made some point which in the moment sounded fine but on reflection I realise revealed a racist/ sexist etc tendency.

I think I'm swept up in the friendliness at the time. Perhaps I'm flattered that people are so nice and upbeat to me. I feel I need to reciprocate and so I miss red flags in the moment.

So maybe not so much additional information but rather additional insight.

I see where you’re coming from op. You’re the sort of person that likes to process an interaction and reflect on it later before forming an opinion?

On the face of it, that’s ok- you’re a deep thinker and perhaps enjoy trying to figure people out. I
It might be self preservation in a way because you’re carefully looking for any warning signs this person is subtly giving off.

I do think if you can stay a little more guarded in the moment and resist falling in love with everyone (or the idea of them) it’ll save you a lot of disappointment? 😉

I still suspect you’re a bit of a hopeless romantic who wants people to be wonderful beings and they’re often falling short on closer examination.

I think it’s natural to go away and process your interactions. Making judgements like these are what guides us in understanding who and where we are in relation to the world and what we want in our lives.

In this sense, every interaction is a little learning opportunity, which then hones our senses for the future.

I had a narc mother and sibling that dominated our lives with tantrums if they didn’t get their own way, so I’m used to having my own wishes on the backburn. My people-pleasing politeness in the moment frustrates me too, and I wish I could feel together enough in myself to react in line with my true values (like taking train guy down a peg or two in response to his boasting or making it very clear to him that I wasn’t all that impressed), but it’s always afterwards that these realisations sink in because I’m a bit too socially anxious in the moment.

Also, don’t forget that sometimes it’d be useful to be able to respond in a knowing way (e.g helping a young person see a different point of view) and sometimes it isn’t (letting an old man boast that he’s had a good life).

I probably am a hopeless romantic/ pollyanna with people but as @WingateAndSlim says, I think it's also social anxiety in the moment which makes me tip towards upbeat, friendly responses and away from thinking about whether the person is nice or not. And that does prevent me from giving signals to people that some of what they say/think/believe - especially to strangers- is not ok! This is maybe why it annoys me later. I think, why was I so friendly to that person when they were actually pretty obviously unpleasant under the surface.

@compash and @WingateAndSlim make such a good point about the link with growing up with a pathologically overbearing, the proverbial narc parent.
You have to 'be' who they require you to be, not allowed your own emotions, certainly can't react naturally, you can't say what you think, because if you do not fit their needs, all hell brakes lose.
Whilst you are 'acting' for them you are still thinking, noticing and processing what is going on though: once you feel safe, thoughts and feelings bubble up to the surface and 'I cannot stand the boring, entitled moron I've just spent 30 minutes playing along with' pop up.
In meeting strangers we are facing the unknown so it would make sense that we automatically regress to what we worked out kept us safe in childhood. A form of autopilot for uncomfortable interactions.

That does make sense @friggingno

To an extent everyone will automatically be polite or humour a person they first meet. Some more than others I guess.

I do it but usually also have an internal monologue going- hmm are they genuine? Are they kind/ are they being tongue in cheek?/are they similar to me/are they a serial killer? 😬

Maybe it’s a mistake that I assume people are doing it with me (being politely friendly/ humouring me until they know me)
Youve got to decide as mentioned above if it’s really worth pulling a stranger up on a view you don’t agree with. I think it’s kinder (or easier!) to let it go and not challenge it.

Sometimes I expect people to pick up my body language and realise I’m not that interested in continuing talking because I’m looking away, not nodding or smiling as much or have glazed over and wonder why they don’t take the social cue.

I suspect a former friend was like you. She hurt me deeply. I never noticed how often she ended relationships because she got bored or suddenly decided against the person, until she did it to me.

Maybe they think the same about you OP?

I relate to this.

I think I go into a 'fawn' response with new people until I can work them out.

I hate myself for it being all friendly and active listeny while people dominate the conversation and boast about themselves. I have got better at noticing when I'm doing it now and will do the opposite of active listening, close up my body language, stare over the top of their head, look around.

Not to genuinely nice people but definitely to people who have talked AT me relentlessly for half an hour. I figure they've set the tone by being so rude so I'm free to be rude back.

You were really rude to the poster who took the time to post about ADHD, btw OP. That's not going off someone that's just you being intolerant of someone else's point of view.

Have you considered that intolerance might be an issue for you?

everyone will automatically be polite or humour a person they first meet.

Yes, luckily it is the agreed social convention! 😁 Just, some people take advantage of that and will hold onto you and ignore the subtle signs you give them, they just steamroll through them 😆

Could be a processing thing.
Social interactions are brain processing power heavy, and for some people the actual interaction takes all their processing capacity, so they only have time for reflection one it's done and once they are no longer actively engaged.

As an analogy... A bilingual person can do translation, they can sit down with a document in one language and taking the text there can understand it's meaning and translate it into another language into a document in the second language.
But that's their capacity limit.
Skilled person.

Another bilingual person is able to translate in the moment. Scenario being, an international politician is speaking in the Hague, the translator is providing live translation into the earpieces of fellow politicians from other countries.
The translator is able to do simultaneous live speech translation into the other language. This involves understanding the meaning of the first language and instantly articulating the same meaning into the second language.
Also skilled person.
But higher language processing capacity for both receptive and productive language.

I think, you are skilled at social interaction but are processing the experience of the other person after the event and as such arriving at your conclusions as to what sort of person they are and what that interaction told you about them as a person reflectively rather than in the moment.

Hence this frequent reappraisal of what you thought of them shortly after.

You were really rude to @Grumblevision who offered a helpful piece of information.

Maybe the topic of ND comes up too often for your liking and ticks you off, but some degree of ND is really really common, and even if you're not the examples can still aid self understanding. It's still a useful part of the picture of life and you didn't need to retaliate.

Yes I think this is getting to the nub of it and @illbehonestnow is right that I default to a slightly fawning response with strangers. I had a mother who was narcissistic in many ways, but I wasn't fawning to her - that would have had the opposite effect and probably got me whacked across the head rather than treated any better!

To those saying I was rude about the ADHD comment - I was trying to be a bit funny about it, but still make the point that the answer to everything isn't ND, ADHD or ASD. Seems on MN if any thread goes on long enough though, there will be someone on to insist that it is and a load of others on to advocate that everyone must forgive ND people every conceivable sin. Some kind of MN version of Godwins law. I'm sorry but sometimes people are just rude and it's not ok to excuse it. And I own my own rudeness back to that poster so you will all just have to accept it! Tbh it's one of the few things irl that does make me stop someone and say "Really? Are you sure that it's fair to dismiss that thing you just did which was thoughtless/ selfish/ rude/ entitled etc because of 'the anxiety' or 'my ADHD'?"

Sorry I quoted the wrong pp in my last post. This is the post I was agreeing with.

Tbh it's one of the few things irl that does make me stop someone and say "Really? Are you sure that it's fair to dismiss that thing you just did which was thoughtless/ selfish/ rude/ entitled etc because of 'the anxiety' or 'my ADHD'?"
Omg that's brave OP, good on you, but you must make so many friends!😂

" but still make the point that the answer to everything isn't ND, ADHD or ASD. Seems on MN if any thread goes on long enough though, there will be someone on to insist that it is and a load of others on to advocate that everyone must forgive ND people every conceivable sin"

This is an absolutely pisspoor representation of what @Grumblevision said - she simply shared some information she'd taken on.

We could equally say everyone wants everything to boil down to having a narcissistic parent - which is an explanation you seem really happy to seize upon.

Lots of people have offered lots of different perspectives on what you described - narsicisstic parenting, different ways of processing information. @Grumblevision is the only one you felt it was ok to be rude to. I can only assume that's because you feel very comfortable sneering at neurodivergent people.

As others have said upthread, I do now think you have issues to work through.

It's an automatic fawn response OP. I do the same. I've practically wasted years of my life being the ear to randoms who use me as a listening post because ultimately I'm afraid of being disliked and fear the response if I don't behave and be nice.. Narcissistic parent too coupled with a bully of an older sister. I'm not thinking this in the moment as it's so deeply engraved in my psyche, but when allowed time and space to sit back and evaluate safely, I then come to the conclusion that the person was a twat who chewed my ear off for an hour. But in the moment, nope I sit there blithely listening and playing my part to nod in all the right places, think of interesting follow up questions, express the appropriate level of horror or surprise at their stories, and smile politely at their unfunny jokes. It's a role you play to keep you safe and avoid being the target of conflict.

I think it is possible to recognise an issue can be a brain processing (ND) thing and still not expect to get away with treating people badly, but hope to be cut some slack, have chance to put things right or take time to come up with the right response.

If someone is abrupt with you and it feels rude, and you know they meant to be rude (cos they are an arsehole), or, know they don't have good social skills through no fault if their own, but are trying and will apologise if they made you feel bad... Those are two different things.

It is also different if said person with poor social skills doesn't give a toss if they upset you and expects you to always let things slide no matter the impact on you 'just cos' - also an arsehole.

Meanwhile pp on here are relating to your upbringing and noticing that they also have similar patterns of behaviour hardwired through their horrible formative experiences.

Whether your mind reacts a certain way because of its innate wiring structure or learnt through trauma the net result can be similar.
In fact there is evidence to show that behaviour patterns ingrained through trauma and some ND traits can be very similar if not indistinguishable (though the root cause may be different).

So, for you, if there is a recognisable inability to view your interactions objectively in the moment and formulate opinions and responses accordingly during rather than after an interaction, that's true whether you were born that way or made that way. And actually the ND community are knowledgeable on these issues and have some excellent personal tools already identified which could be helpful.

So, although attributing things to neurodiversity too often in your opinion, happens to be your own personal bugbear, and @Grumblevision touched that nerve... the fact remains that, it's at least a comparable issue even if it's not behind what's going on for you, and you might be closing your mind to some useful sources of excellent strategies to reduce how often you find yourself doing this.

Instead you could recognise that all people who struggle with certain things have stuff in common and may therefore be a good source of valuable life knowledge.

I don't know why you bring ye olde narcissistic parents into your argument @illbehonestnow, I am yet to hear anyone with one of these using it as a reason for why they should be treated differently.
In both cases t's a question of visibility, there is now a name for that type of personality as there are now names for neurodiversity.
None of these things are new, however, or uncommon. We all are divergences on a basis of normality, whatever it would be, to varying degrees. As a percentage of the population, life altering pathology is still rare and in these case society should accommodate. In any other cases it's our own responsibility to adapt to society in order to thrive. Resorting to a diagnosis to excuse everything from trivial to tragic isn't helpful.

Because the OP has talked about her narcissistic mother?

@illbehonestnow but she doesn't expect to be treated differently for it?

Now you make me think @PoochiesPinkEars such a good post.

Point out where @Grumblevision said she expected to be treated differently?

Thanks but no @illbehonestnowyou are now deflecting on @Grumblevision because you can't be logical in making your own point. Leave me alone please.

I've made a perfectly logical point.

Lots of people answered the OP with suggestions to her question.

Then you and the OP decided to add a little ND bashing to the post.

Leave you alone? Quite happily. I can see you and the OP for what you are.

Ableist and jumping at the chance to proclaim it.