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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you fall for a romance scam artist?

231 replies

Mojitowithelfreako · 31/03/2024 22:18

They just seem so ridiculous (the men).
The Tinder Swindler, Dirty John, Bad Surgeon, the guy from Bad Vegan... why do they succeed?
I feel like I would see through it, especially when they bring up the 'CIA' stuff. These women don't seem stupid. Do they never sit back and think 'that doesn't add up' or speak to their friends who say 'that's bullshit'. I just don't get it.
Maybe they are super charming but I think they go too far with their lies. As soon as anyone said 'it's top secret' then I would immediately think what a dick head.
Do you think they try several women before they succeed or can they tell which women want to believe, or are vulnerable?
Or could any of us get drawn in?

OP posts:
Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 03:43

often these people have antisocial personality disorder traits people who lie with no thought of consequences they simply don’t care about the harm they cause and many will enjoy this

Yep, mine is definitely a covert narcissist - I’ve been doing lots of research on it as it has helped me to understand what happened to me (such a head fuck) and he 100% fits the description. They come across so kind and humble but they’re wolves in sheep’s clothing. I think I’ve been in physical shock about what’s happened because it’s hard to even comprehend people like this exist and you’ve fallen for it!

WandaWonder · 01/04/2024 03:45

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 03:36

This is very true. Never did I ever think I would fall for a charlatan of any kind - you can’t comprehend it until you meet one of these insidious individuals.
I didn’t fall for one of these scammers who do it for the money but I can understand how it happens from my own experience.
This is what happened to me:

Will start by saying I’m unhappily married but stuck (long story) in an abusive marriage.

Met and had an intense attraction with a (married) man on a night out. He then persued me but not in an ott way - was just very complimentary (“it was so great to meet you last night - can you do lunch this week?”). Told me this about his marriage “it’s complicated - we’re just friends, haven’t had sex for over two years, she’s had MH issues and was a recluse for years so I have to tread carefully” also claimed he would struggle to separate properly as they have a dog and he was scared she’d try and take her (!!)
I told him of my unhappiness in my marriage - I believe he quickly latched into this and started his manipulation.
From the first meeting told me how beautiful I am, would stare into my eyes and act like he couldn’t believe his luck in meeting me. Acted like he was the kindest, sweetest, most altruistic guy you’d ever meet. Gave the impression he would do anything for anyone, offering me help with things such as sending a plumber round to fix things in my house, getting the brakes sorted on my car, offered me a job in his office when I told him I couldn’t leave my dh due to finances etc. Told me things like “you’re the only person I can talk to/who understands me”, was very loving and caring in bed, future faked: made plans, told me he’d booked tickets for festivals in the summer that we discussed etc etc.
I could go on and on but long story short, I fell very much in love with him and thought he was in love with me. I admitted early on to my dh as I couldn’t keep up the lies and he (scammer)told me he wanted us to be together, would constantly say things like “I want to be out there in public with you”. He spent a lot of time with me when he should’ve been working and had me round to his house when his wife was working away, pushing aside my concerns by saying they really were just friends and it was over.
When my dh found out who he was and threatened to contact his wife I told him I thought we should stop seeing one another. He then said he was going to tell her that he was moving out and seeing someone else - ok fine. Next day she “took an overdose”. This was when I started getting red flags. It all seemed too convenient. It was also extremely intense and when I told him I thought we should take a break he would manipulate me by getting upset and saying we were in this together/he only has me to talk to.

Long story short his wife knew nothing about me until she found out by herself by snooping on his phone! Then the shit hit the fan.

Turned out he had no intention of leaving her. I actually think he is unhappy and doesn’t love her but needs her for her money - he wouldn’t have the lifestyle he does without her and he mentioned several times that she earns more than him.
I can’t believe someone would do that to another person and the level of lying and duplicitousness it must’ve taken to be spinning his story, as well as lying to his wife is just mind-blowing. I realise now I probably wasn’t the first.

He has already had one business go into liquidation and the one he’s running now looks like it’s going the same way and I wonder if part of the appeal with me was that he knew (or thought) I had money. We live in a big house/nice car etc and if you looked up my dh online you would see he is a wealthy guy - he told me early on in our relationship he had googled my dh and knew who he was. The thing with these people is also that they often tell the truth about some things so for instance he didn’t lie about being married, he told me about his first business going into liquidation- probably because these were things I could’ve easily found out by googling him. So it’s not like they are just necessarily lying about everything.

So there were red flags but I guess I ignored them because the good stuff and love-bombing was doing dopamine type stuff in my brain! There’s SO much more I could put here about the things he did/said to completely convince me that we were going to be together.

Hid wife bailed him out with his first business ploughing a lot of money of her own to pay off some of his debts - I wonder if he was lining me up to give him money too, I don’t know but it’s crossed my mind.

Im intelligent and don’t suffer fools gladly - I’d describe myself as a cynical person. But he still managed to “scam” me. Not out of money but he scammed me nonetheless.

Some would probably say I deserve it but I feel like I was groomed in some way.

Ive said this on another thread bc I want to actually warn other women about him: his initials are DW and he lives in Cheshire and has a dog with the initial W!! I really feel like he’ll be on the lookout for his next victim and it actually really worries me, he was such a convincing liar.

So you were gullible you can't blame him for that, time and time again people show people who they are and they choose to ignore a lot of 'scams' that is talked about online but yes people get 'scammed' in real life

How many people complain on here about the long term issues they have yet still put up with it

If people really have their eyes open and have a line they will not let anyone cross how many would really put up with it

People should not pick on the gullible and the desperate but they get away with it because people let them, some people are told by friends and family to watch out the person is not trustworthy, or they fall for the 'it was all my exe's fault they were terrible' but some people wont listen 'but he loves me' if people go into things with their eyes open it may help

HRTQueen · 01/04/2024 03:54

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 03:43

often these people have antisocial personality disorder traits people who lie with no thought of consequences they simply don’t care about the harm they cause and many will enjoy this

Yep, mine is definitely a covert narcissist - I’ve been doing lots of research on it as it has helped me to understand what happened to me (such a head fuck) and he 100% fits the description. They come across so kind and humble but they’re wolves in sheep’s clothing. I think I’ve been in physical shock about what’s happened because it’s hard to even comprehend people like this exist and you’ve fallen for it!

These people work on another level they are always at least five steps ahead the creat confusion so it’s hard to outwit them and some like to seek out the vulnerable (and we all can be at times) some like the challenge

its exactly when working with offenders who have these traits or certain diagnosis a large team will work with them and report back to each other one of the reasons for this is to avoid professionals being manipulated. If you believe that you can’t be is challenging for some

HRTQueen · 01/04/2024 03:57

Please don’t punish yourself Ohffsbarbara

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 03:59

WandaWonder

Yes with hindsight I was maybe gullible but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to just tell another person a complete pack of lies and string them along with untruths.

This wasn’t just about sex - he’s an attractive guy and if he wanted sex could easily get a hookup online or a fwb situation. He put a hell of a lot of effort into wooing me, buying me gifts, messaging me 100 times a day etc. I had no reason to believe it wasn’t real at first.
No, I believe like a pp said that these people have personality disorders and actually get off on causing people pain and upset. It’s like a sport for them and I believe he probably hates his wife too and enjoys getting g one over on her by having affairs - I really got the impression he resented her massively, probably because she earns more money/is more successful than him and he feels emasculated by her. I’ve only realised all this in hindsight though. I’ve also realised that the mental abuse I’ve suffered for years from my dh has left me in a vulnerable/unhappy state which is probably apparent to these types.

It has left me feeling very foolish but i also know how convincing he is and I believe that lots of other intelligent women would be taken in by him. He is that good!

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 04:07

HRTQueen

Thank you - when other people have an understanding of these types it makes you feel not quite so stupid. People really don’t understand unless they’ve been there or have experience of personality disorders.
One of the things the online coaches I’ve been looking at all say is that you will find it very difficult to get anyone to understand what you’ve been through because it seems so implausible. If I told my story to anyone in RL they’d just think I was stupid - but I know I’m not, I was a victim of his manipulation. It isn’t at all obvious it’s very subtle - otherwise you wouldn’t fall for it. They come across completely normal and sane.

I wouldn’t wish my experience on anyone but I know he’ll do it again, I think it’s an addiction for them.

YoureALizardHarry11 · 01/04/2024 04:08

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 03:59

WandaWonder

Yes with hindsight I was maybe gullible but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to just tell another person a complete pack of lies and string them along with untruths.

This wasn’t just about sex - he’s an attractive guy and if he wanted sex could easily get a hookup online or a fwb situation. He put a hell of a lot of effort into wooing me, buying me gifts, messaging me 100 times a day etc. I had no reason to believe it wasn’t real at first.
No, I believe like a pp said that these people have personality disorders and actually get off on causing people pain and upset. It’s like a sport for them and I believe he probably hates his wife too and enjoys getting g one over on her by having affairs - I really got the impression he resented her massively, probably because she earns more money/is more successful than him and he feels emasculated by her. I’ve only realised all this in hindsight though. I’ve also realised that the mental abuse I’ve suffered for years from my dh has left me in a vulnerable/unhappy state which is probably apparent to these types.

It has left me feeling very foolish but i also know how convincing he is and I believe that lots of other intelligent women would be taken in by him. He is that good!

This is a classic case of love bombing, it’s a common tactic used by people who get all their self worth from making others fall for them, because it proves to them they are good enough, it’s not about loving their victim, it just strokes their ego when they succeed.

Loads of people fall for it, especially when lonely. I had it tried on me a few times, men on OLD tend to do this a lot because they’re insecure or narcissistic . Luckily I can spot it a mile off.

TealSapphire · 01/04/2024 04:13

Part of the reason I stay single is because I know I'm easily manipulated. My ex husband played me like a fiddle. Logically I know you can never trust ANYONE 100% but I feel that I don't make the best choices with men so best to steer clear.

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 04:16

That’s exactly it YoureALizardHarry11
It’s the thrill of it for them I think. And having to fill some sort of void in themselves that can never be filled. They need constant supply.

But I’d never met anyone like this before and had never experienced love bombing so I was green. They target kind, empathetic types as they’re attracted to the qualities they don’t possess and my niceness definitely contributed to me maybe batting away spidey senses when he was being super loving. When you’re very unhappy I guess you want to believe it subconsciously too. It was still a huge shock when he pulled the rug from under me though.

I guess you live and learn.

YoureALizardHarry11 · 01/04/2024 04:16

TealSapphire · 01/04/2024 04:13

Part of the reason I stay single is because I know I'm easily manipulated. My ex husband played me like a fiddle. Logically I know you can never trust ANYONE 100% but I feel that I don't make the best choices with men so best to steer clear.

But in way you can reframe your bad experience because for all the hurt it caused you, you can use your knowledge and insight to weed through until you find better. The trouble is, it can turn you cynical and thinking ‘’why bother’’ so it’s a bit of a catch 22 😂

YoureALizardHarry11 · 01/04/2024 04:19

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 04:16

That’s exactly it YoureALizardHarry11
It’s the thrill of it for them I think. And having to fill some sort of void in themselves that can never be filled. They need constant supply.

But I’d never met anyone like this before and had never experienced love bombing so I was green. They target kind, empathetic types as they’re attracted to the qualities they don’t possess and my niceness definitely contributed to me maybe batting away spidey senses when he was being super loving. When you’re very unhappy I guess you want to believe it subconsciously too. It was still a huge shock when he pulled the rug from under me though.

I guess you live and learn.

Exactly. You just need to remember it’s not about you and you’re not to blame, it’s them! I think that’s the trap so many people fall into, ‘’what’s wrong with me!?’’ But really the perpetrators are so pathetic if they feel the need to use that sort of tactic to be loved

WandaWonder · 01/04/2024 04:20

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 03:59

WandaWonder

Yes with hindsight I was maybe gullible but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to just tell another person a complete pack of lies and string them along with untruths.

This wasn’t just about sex - he’s an attractive guy and if he wanted sex could easily get a hookup online or a fwb situation. He put a hell of a lot of effort into wooing me, buying me gifts, messaging me 100 times a day etc. I had no reason to believe it wasn’t real at first.
No, I believe like a pp said that these people have personality disorders and actually get off on causing people pain and upset. It’s like a sport for them and I believe he probably hates his wife too and enjoys getting g one over on her by having affairs - I really got the impression he resented her massively, probably because she earns more money/is more successful than him and he feels emasculated by her. I’ve only realised all this in hindsight though. I’ve also realised that the mental abuse I’ve suffered for years from my dh has left me in a vulnerable/unhappy state which is probably apparent to these types.

It has left me feeling very foolish but i also know how convincing he is and I believe that lots of other intelligent women would be taken in by him. He is that good!

If people buy me gifts or speak negatively about another person and messages 100 times a day, is just creepy, is an instant redflag

Anything that is too good to be true is always too good to be true because it is not real

I met my now husband online and he was none of these at all

Ohffsbarbara · 01/04/2024 04:32

If people buy me gifts or speak negatively about another person and messages 100 times a day, is just creepy, is an instant redflag

If someone else was telling me this id say the exact same as you but honestly - I’m as cynical as they come and it didn’t feel creepy. It felt like I had met someone who finally wanted to make me happy and show me with actions how much they loved me. It didn’t feel too much at the time because I was enjoying the attention.

Of course now with hindsight I can see it was a huge red flag. But then again, if he hadn’t turned out to be a liar I would just still be madly in love I guess - you do hear of these love at first sight/whirlwind romances and I guess I’m just guilty of wanting to be happy really.

The horrible thing is that part of me is still in love with him and finding it very hard to get over it. He really did a number on me and you can’t help but miss the way they made you feel even though you know it wasn’t who they really are.

CHEESEY13 · 01/04/2024 04:38

What? These scumgits who email you out of the blue to say they lurve you and saw profile on Facebook........when you're not on Facebook......and never have been?

YoureALizardHarry11 · 01/04/2024 04:41

CHEESEY13 · 01/04/2024 04:38

What? These scumgits who email you out of the blue to say they lurve you and saw profile on Facebook........when you're not on Facebook......and never have been?

Then it must be fate that has brought you together if they’ve managed to contact you on a platform you don’t even use, it’s magical.. literally 🥰 😂

KeinLiebeslied54321 · 01/04/2024 04:50

Most people probably think they wouldn't however intelligent people have fallen for it so.......

MenopauseSucks · 01/04/2024 04:51

I hope I wouldn't but as I've written in another thread, I used to cheerfully hitchhike everywhere with little concern for my safety so I might be a little too trusting of people.
Certainly email & phone appeals I feel certain about. I don't know how I would react if I'd been dating someone seriously for a while. I hope I would be aware enough to step away. I think I'm probably too tight to go ahead with anything like that!
Becky Holmes on X is hilarious with plenty of screenshots of men catfishing her - although with her replies, it almost feels like she's catfishing them as well.
She's written a book 'Keanu Reeves is not in love with you' which is a good read.

TealSapphire · 01/04/2024 07:14

@YoureALizardHarry11 true, I am much more scrupulous nowadays. But also very jaded and take no BS. I actually don't think any man would pass muster 😅

Mojitowithelfreako · 01/04/2024 07:15

I think it's gone past catfishing to people lying in real life. These are the modern day sailors with one in every port.

OP posts:
Vacantstare · 01/04/2024 07:33

Mojitowithelfreako · 31/03/2024 22:18

They just seem so ridiculous (the men).
The Tinder Swindler, Dirty John, Bad Surgeon, the guy from Bad Vegan... why do they succeed?
I feel like I would see through it, especially when they bring up the 'CIA' stuff. These women don't seem stupid. Do they never sit back and think 'that doesn't add up' or speak to their friends who say 'that's bullshit'. I just don't get it.
Maybe they are super charming but I think they go too far with their lies. As soon as anyone said 'it's top secret' then I would immediately think what a dick head.
Do you think they try several women before they succeed or can they tell which women want to believe, or are vulnerable?
Or could any of us get drawn in?

No because I don't trust people and I'd never send money to anyone unless they were a close family member etc.

But then I don't understand why anyone would send money to a random in the first place regardless of what sorry tale of woe they spun you? Even if you thought you were in love with them and believed them surely alarm bells would be ringing somewhere? And if they don't surely you're a bit thick and naive in this day and age! So I have limited sympathy for people who end up victims of these con artists. Unless they're elderly of course.

Vacantstare · 01/04/2024 07:41

Bottom line is just don't send money to anyone unless they're a close family member? These scams would be easily avoided if people weren't so bloody thick.

Coincidentally · 01/04/2024 07:56

bluebeardswife7 · 31/03/2024 22:40

Are you stealing my hot man??

😂😂

BombBiggleton · 01/04/2024 07:57

I think the scammers/ swindlers know that there is a small percentage of victims -in -waiting out there..it would be very enlightening to find out from their p.o.v what makes an easy target.

It seems to me there needs to be a weird combination of factors in play :

  1. A vulnerability and a loneliness, perhaps we'll hidden normally
  1. An arrogance that results in them thinking 'obviously this handsome Canadian surgeon 20 years younger than me is interested'
  1. The same arrogance above that means they dismiss friends concerns when it's obvious it's a scam.

Still find it sad to read about 62 year old June from Halifax who genuinely thought 23 year old Gambian tribesmen Nkwame was genuinely in love with her .

EatCrow · 01/04/2024 07:57

MugLove · 31/03/2024 22:26

No I’m far too mean 😂

Me too! 😁

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 01/04/2024 07:59

I always thought no but I listened to a BBC podcast about one who would move in with the women and essentially manage to get them to give up all their savings, while grooming his next victim while “at work.”

I always thought romance scams were just people transferring money to someone they never met but this was scary