Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

How on EARTH would that be objectively determined?
Waiter squinting at a 9 year old girl - sorry let me get a bit closer, need to check if the lumps on your naked child are breast buds or if she's just a bit chubby. To a 11 year old boy, sorry I know it's his top we're complaining about being off but can you also just pull down his pants so we can check if his testicles have descended?

A 9 year old girl who had started puberty can't sit in a restaurant with her top off, but a 12 year old boy who hasn't can? How about if she sits in a bra? What if it isn't the top that needs to be off for the autistic child to eat comfortably but all their clothes? Then there's all the other accommodations - what if what the child needs to be comfortable is to play a particular TV show on their tablet and they can't wear earphones?

It's just too complicated and potentially liable for the restaurant to try and draw these lines - much easier to just have a set line that all customers need to be fully clothed.

You're implying they are putting their child at risk and not protecting him because he has his top off, that's a very blinkered view.
I don't imagine many people are going to an all you can eat Indian buffet to try to look at topless children in the company of their parents.

It wasn’t though.

So is it inappropriate for a child to wear ear defenders in a restaurant?

I really feel for the parents!!! They were just trying to have a quick meal out in an all you can eat type place.

It's really, really, really difficult to rationalise with an autistic child once they are fixed on doing something. They know their child and were probably trying to avoid a scene or meltdown in public.

By threatening throw them out it would have drawn more attention to it for other diners - hence your post on here! Kids can be challenging at the best of times at that age and don't always care about whether it looks bad, let alone if they are neurodiverse. Those parents are just trying to live their live and cope with a challenging child so probably are more used to dealing with it all and know that them over reacting and attempting to wrestle a top on the poor child would escalate things further!

It sounds as though the mum was exasperated and embarrassed by the lack of empathy shown by the restaurant in my opinion and it was just a throw away remark.

Interesting one.

businesses are allowed to set dress codes, and refuse service on that basis. I wonder how that would stand up legally with regards to disability. many cafe's and restaurants do insist on a shirt, even beach side places

i do wonder if it’s health and safety, as pp have said spilling food down himself.

i also wonder if there’s a cultural issue at play. If it’s an Indian/pakistani run restaurant who may see this as not dressing modestly.

in that case whose rights take precedence? The autistic boy’s right to eat and be included, or the restaurants staff's right to accommodate their religious beliefs and to turn away customers who may breach those beliefs…

if the child were mine, hmm. i agree they should be allowed to eat out, but i would probably discretely check with staff before being seated.

If I knew the boy was autistic, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But I do think it's up to the parents to ask the restaurant owners first before commencing their meal. I know for a fact my parents would have an issue with it, for them eating out is something they do rarely, it's a treat and they dress up for the occasion.
Expecting people to accept it because he'll have a meltdown otherwise is showing a lack of respect for others.

You're implying they are putting their child at risk and not protecting him because he has his top off, that's a very blinkered view.

as long as it’s indoors, correct op?

hot summers day in the park? beach? nope, definitely no risk of a paedophile there. They only congregate inside restaurants

Why would it be?

I have said I'm torn. I can see both sides.

This.

It wouldn't bother me either but I agree with this. He won't be that young forever. What about when he's a hairier 17yo? And yes also what if it's his trousers next time?

DS is autistic and much preferred to live in his pants. The minute he walked through the door he stripped off.

But I felt my "job" was to prepare him for life in the real world, as an adult. So i would empathise with his preference to live in his pants - which he pretty much did up until he was about 11 - but was very clear he had to be dressed appropriately if we were out. I would compromise on what he wore. He was OK in very baggy, loose fitting tops, so he might not look as smart as he could, but he was dressed.

I don't think it's helpful in the long term to just let ND children ignore social norms. That isn't to say they should be forced to conform when they can't, but it should be a general aim, and if that means saying "it would be nice to go for a buffet tonight, but we can't if you won't stay dressed" then so be it.

So, I wouldn't be complaining.

Because it's not "normal" for a child to wear ear defenders.

Because it's "upsetting" for the other diners to have to cast their eyes on someone who isn't "normal".

Absolutely this.

My child is disabled. I have given up on taking them certain places or eating out to avoid attitudes like the ones on this thread. It's not worth it.

Exactly!

I mean it's a well known fact that mostly children would be topless in a restaurant and not on the beach...we all know that don't we!

🙄

@exerciseshmexercise yep you're right, but restaurants have to do all they can to mitigate that kind of thing, so maybe they would refuse someone wearing that kind of thing too. I wouldn't but I do insist on tops being worn in my restaurant

I really do feel for the parents but it’s simply not acceptable to go to any eatery and eat top less.

Don’t try to make this a bigger thing about me being more accepting towards ND children, I have friends with ND children who don’t take their kids to places they will struggle or not be able to cope. The parents needs do not outweigh the child’s or other diners in this situation.

Yeah but my point is where is the line drawn? In many places there are dress codes, no football tops, no uncovered shoulders, no bikini.

So he only wanted his top off, but what happens if the meltdown trigger changes? and mid meal he wants his pants off too? is that still OK?
Is it still acceptable because of his age, and if he were 15 itd be not allowed?
Is it only acceptable because he's a young lad, if it were a girl would it be different?

It's not unreasonable for a business to require patrons to be clothed, its more acceptable to have the one rule rather than sex and age related criteria ...

Oh your poor eyes seeing a child without a top on!

Would you need to lie down from the shock?

Do you never go to beaches or of you do, so you wear a blindfold!

You've just been deleted, OP. You broke Talk Guidelines.

I wouldn't have a problem with the boy not wearing his shirt if he was sitting quietly and eating his food. I have a huge problem with children being allowed to noisily romp about restaurants like they're at soft play, it's not a children's playground for fuck's sake. DH and I had brunch today in a smart cafe and I narrowly missed treading on the toddler who was randomly lying on the floor behind my chair. I caught its Mum's eye and asked 'Is this child yours because I just nearly stood on them?' She just shrugged and looked away.

@exerciseshmexercise no I wouldn't. Nor would I have complained about the child.
I was merely stating that in restaurants people are meant to wear a top.
I don't know why you think I'd make complaints about anyone, based on my comments?

Think about when you're on holiday and the all inclusive outdoor restaurant by the pool has diners in their swimming costumes, it's not really a problem.

I'm the last person to make excuses for badly behaved kids, but he probably was genuinely finding the t shirt really itchy and therefore uncomfortable, not a big deal like the waiter was making out.

I think it is primarily a safety thing. I presume the food was hot, so a much greater risk of scalds and burns, especially when collecting food from the buffet due to the height of the food and the smallness of the child.