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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

923 replies

EggsBenedick · 30/03/2024 15:16

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

OP posts:
Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:39

trackertoo · 30/03/2024 15:56

it’s the idea that you started this not wanting a bun thread about something that always causes division. why? because we are talking about children. Children with SEN.

and fact you changed name just to start thread indicates you knew full well

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Spot on - original poster couldn’t help herself from stirring the 💩 with this post and how she was ‘torn’… I took the bait - people like her and the majority of comments show woeful lack ignorance and lack of empathy towards neurodivergence/hidden disabilities.
Really boils my p*ss - it’s hard enough for the parents of ND kids, but think of how hard it was for the child. ND kids respond really badly to shame and guilt and this probably came out at home later.
she could have been compassionate, but no, she sat down and thought, ‘how can I make this about me…’ and get some attention….Jesus wept, this is why I prefer cats to humans…

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:43

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Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:44

Craftyy · 01/04/2024 17:06

You can't switch autism on and off based on a neurotypical's view of what's appropriate.

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Spot on - someone with a brain and a great 👍

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:47

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Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:48

WigglyVonWaggly · 31/03/2024 14:22

I think he’s too young for being topless to be an issue. However, I also think that if her son does things which upset other diners then he shouldn’t be taken to restaurants. There’s no ‘human right’ for children to go to restaurants, just a desire for people to go and socialise and enjoy the food. However, these are obviously public places where multiple others are paying to enjoy their own meals and in my opinion that takes priority over the wishes of one family to eat there with a child who isn’t able to behave appropriately.

Oh, ffs….

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:49

Scarletttulips · 31/03/2024 11:10

How do you cope on the beach and at swimming pools?

Eating and swimming are different activities.

The point, your head…a good country mile between the two 🤦‍♀️

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:51

SloaneStreetVandal · 31/03/2024 15:02

Nothing like cherry picking, taking replies out of context and putting words in mouths. Think I'll leave you guys to it now 🙂

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You got called out and bailed eh.. off you trot…🫤🤨🤦‍♀️

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:53

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Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:55

NoCloudsAllowed · 30/03/2024 15:31

Somewhere like a pub garden, it wouldn't bother me. In a restaurant, yes clothing is a reasonable requirement. What if he was more comfortable without trousers and pants on too?

I get that having an autistic child is challenging, but there are basic rules of decency that children need to learn. If they can't, don't go to a restaurant unless it's super casual.

The wait staff were probably Muslim, does autism trump religious sensitivity? Nope, their restaurant, their rules.

As for the reviews - pah!

Something your parents should have taught you….’ It’s not always about you’… ffs

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:56

BoohooWoohoo · 30/03/2024 15:38

While I sympathise with the parents, turning a blind eye to a topless 8 year old is a slippery slope to topless men expecting to be catered for because give people an inch and they’ll take a mile. What if the child didn’t want to be bottoms ? Underwear ? Topless is harmless imho but I think it’s easier to have a rule that says clothes must be worn.

I wouldn’t write a review of the restaurant who have a right to expect patrons to wear a top.

On my god….. 🫤🤨🤣… unbelievable

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:58

BertieBotts · 30/03/2024 15:50

YABU.

I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child...

She had explained (perhaps not in a way everyone would understand) that if she had put the t-shirt on, it would have triggered a meltdown. Maybe you aren't aware of the difference between a NT child screaming and an autistic meltdown, which is fine, but to clarify, it is unlikely that she would have been able to "try" to put the t-shirt on and then stop and he would have stopped screaming. If he had been pushed into meltdown, then it is very difficult and time consuming to reverse that and would have totally disrupted the family's meal and potentially others' meals as well.

Many autistic children would already be finding the environment of a busy buffet restaurant to be difficult/overstimulating. If he was hungry, it might have been worse too.

The family probably had four options really.

  1. Try to put t-shirt on, trigger meltdown. Not ideal.
  2. Let child be. Explain to staff/other patrons if necessary.
  3. Take child outside and try to calm them enough to get the t-shirt back on. Might have worked, might have not, would have likely taken a huge amount of time and might have only been successful until the child got back into the busy, bright, loud, strong-smelling environment of the buffet and then you might get meltdown or t-shirt removal again and be back to 0.
  4. Abandon meal and take everyone home.
Seems to me like she took the best option for everyone. And was probably upset about it later anyway.

Imagine if every time you tried to go to a restaurant something like this happened.

...as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant.

This is the kind of NT-affirming ridiculousness that is frustrating if you do deal with anything like this. "Not appropriate" is such a non-reason. It's a child, nobody cares if they are topless. There is nothing to be offended by. They are not hurting anybody. There is no danger to them (maybe if they are going up to the buffet while topless, but perhaps an adult could get the rest of his food, as a compromise).

Sure, it is a social norm that people including children should wear clothes in a restaurant, but social norms don't mean a great deal to a lot of autistic people, and if he needed to take off his top but otherwise was calm and non-disruptive, then I think it would be totally fair to make an exception in this case, while still having the general rule and starting with the expectation that everyone should be clothed.

If it was a little baby say 6 months old that was topless, do you think the same rules should apply? What if their top got totally soaked by a spilled drink, for example? I think most people in that situation would be totally happy for the baby to be topless on the grounds that they don't really understand the social norm, it's not causing any harm and there isn't anything suitable for them to wear. It may be that an autistic 8yo doesn't understand the social norm and their top feels as uncomfortable as a wringing wet one would be to a baby.

Perfect - a reasonable voice 👍👍

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:01

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Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:01

Idontwantbeans · 30/03/2024 16:10

My SIL has an autistic child. She would have removed him from the restaurant.

Autistic or not there are basic rules to follow. I wouldn’t want to look at the topless child while I’m eating

ffs - why are people so ignorant

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:04

Jumpingthruhoops · 30/03/2024 16:25

Why on earth would they try to put his top on to appease others when they know he will have an autistic meltdown and be judged even more?

Because there are other people in the restaurant to consider, and it's not all about this one family. Bloody hell, entitled much?

Oh…the…irony….

playing top trumps with the disabled to justify own ignorance & entitlement…. 🤯 🫤🤦‍♀️

vivainsomnia · 01/04/2024 18:05

People don't automatically become public educators when they have a child with a disability. A family in a restaurant are not there to provide a teachable moment for others. They should not have to explain their child's medical conditions to strangers. "My child has <a disability>" should be enough. If people don't understand what that means, that is on them
And that's where I disagree. If your or your child's behaviour is going to be disruptive, to the point of them having to make adjustments to accommodate you,your child, I do believe that you have a responsibility to explain to a degree. It's not about sharing their whole life story, it's just to share why you can't do anything to prevent the disruption and show you do appreciate it might impact on them.

No one who knows what Autism is talks about it in ‘general terms’
But that's exactly what people gave done here. Just the poster above says that having to say her child has autism should be enough. That's a generalisation.

I don't think autism even needs to be mentioned, just that they taking their shirt off is not them having a tantrum but something they haven't been able to manage, at least yet. End of and hope it causes no offense. Doesn't demand much.

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:06

trackertoo · 30/03/2024 16:22

just clocked your user name 😔

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Hopefully only time mum if kids are going to be raised without compassion.

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:07

Arconialiving · 30/03/2024 16:24

This!

I do expect all other diners (children or adults) to be dressed in a restaurant).

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🤦‍♀️

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:08

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Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:09

DaBlackCatsAreDaBestCats · 30/03/2024 16:44

Exactly. Where’s the manners! Outrageous actually.

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🤦‍♀️🫤

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:11

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whistleblower99 · 01/04/2024 18:13

In before the ban.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 01/04/2024 18:37

Spot on - original poster couldn’t help herself from stirring the 💩 with this post and how she was ‘torn’… I took the bait - people like her and the majority of comments show woeful lack ignorance and lack of empathy towards neurodivergence/hidden disabilities.
Really boils my pss - it’s hard enough for the parents of ND kids, but think of how hard it was for the child. ND kids respond really badly to shame and guilt and this probably came out at home later.
she could have been compassionate, but no, she sat down and thought, ‘how can I make this about me…’ and get some attention….Jesus wept, this is why I prefer cats to humans*

What a silly post. And nasty. I don’t see this in the OP at all and as it has been pointed out many times it is a health and safety issue.

SloaneStreetVandal · 01/04/2024 18:49

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 17:51

You got called out and bailed eh.. off you trot…🫤🤨🤦‍♀️

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I didn't tbf, replied a few more.

You away and relax now, take a few deep breaths 🧘‍♀️ 🙂

Jumpingthruhoops · 01/04/2024 19:17

Nily4567 · 01/04/2024 18:04

Oh…the…irony….

playing top trumps with the disabled to justify own ignorance & entitlement…. 🤯 🫤🤦‍♀️

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Yeah OK, whatever 🙄

RainbowZebraWarrior · 01/04/2024 19:32

I never reported this thread, but I'll be honest, I do report most 'Autistic questioning' threads. They always have 'Autistic' in the title as it guarantees to light the blue touch paper.

There's at least a couple every week, and if they weren't intended to be goady from the off, they certainly turn that way. Every single time.

'AIBU to think we are all a bit Autistic' this week was a classic example. It's thinly veiled faux curiosity at best, and downright ableist wind up material and ignorance at worst. Often the poster name changes, or has no posting history.

MN always lets them stand. Fair enough, but I'd like to see them pop a comment on, from time to time. Sometimes I think that maybe, just maybe, it might end up raising some awareness and understanding.

It doesn't.

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