Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

It's not ignorance at all. It's considering others. We all have empathy - but there are boundaries. It's not outrageous to suggest diners in a restaurant might have an issue with a child - any child - dining naked from the waist up. Nothing to do with being ignorant.

And everything to do with that child being disabled. How is him taking off his t shirt impacting anyone else ? Autism is about difficulty in processing how the world works. It’s about varying degrees of cognitive impairment that make it difficult and sometimes impossible for the person to recognise what is and is not acceptable social behaviour. In this instance the taking off of the t shirt was a sign that he was experiencing sensory overload. The parents recognised that and knew if they tried to force him to dress it would result in a meltdown. Which would have impacted other diners far more.

It's not outrageous to suggest diners in a restaurant might have an issue with a child - any child - dining naked from the waist up. Nothing to do with being ignorant
Any child really? Even if it was say mum's special birthday, that the restaurant had a special meaning to her for whatever reason, that she wanted to celebrate with all her children because they are all equally important to her, that the last time it happened was when her child with autism was a baby because she fears others comments but that she decided to take the jump this one time, and that the only way this child will seat and eat quietly is if their shirt is off.

Would you then still absolutely insist that she shouldn't be there with the child? Because if that's the case, then I would find this very very sad.

In this instance the taking off of the t shirt was a sign that he was experiencing sensory overload. The parents recognised that and knew if they tried to force him to dress it would result in a meltdown. Which would have impacted other diners far more
No offence but you just don't know that. Again, that's an assumption made on generalising autism. You don't know that in this case, it was sensory overload. You don't know what the parents recognise and don't recognise. You don't know what would have happened if they had insisted on putting something on.

This post is not helpful because however much those with no experience of autism might not be in a position to comment, noone however experienced they are can confidently insist on knowing what the child or the parents were experiencing in that situation and what the outcome would have been otherwise. Nobody knows!

Exactly.

As I've already said, you see threads on here a couple of times a week about Autistic members of the community.

You never see threads about public experiences of people with Motor Neuron Disease, Dementia, Cerebral Palsy or Downs Syndrome. Largely because most people understand that it would be a twattish thing to do to complain about them, or question their 'behaviour' not fitting with the perceived norm.

I have plenty of experience of Autism. Worked with it for ten years. And I know enough about it from a clinical point of view to take much more of an educated guess than most on here that this was a coping mechanism for sensory overload. I’ll go further. I’ll invite parents of ND children to comment on that. You are twisting in the wind trying to make excuses for the ignorance and intolerance for a little boy trying to make sense of the world. The parents’ reaction reinforces 100% that they know their son. They know the trigger points, and they know what the alternatives were should they try to force their son to get dressed.

This thread is sickening. Just a vile way to 'debate' a child's right to exist in a public space. I don't often feel angry at mumsnet threads but really - this shouldn't be allowed. The fake 'interest' 'ooh I was just wondering about this situation - just a little bit torn' - why don't you just f-off with your 'a bit torn' in whether or not to judge a family you know F-all about excelt that they struggle with battles you have no idea about.

Sensory overload and clothing is a common feature of Autistic people's difficulties.

Those of us who have experience of this, are likely to understand how this often pans out. It is not beyond the realms of comprehension to notice, or sense a familiar pattern, and have a sound understanding of these situations.

I can confidently say that if anyone tried to force myself or my daughter to do something we would have a meltdown.

Basic understanding of Autism, and for example, selective mutism, among professionals is absolutely not to force people to go against their sensory coping mechanisms.

And I know enough about it from a clinical point of view to take much more of an educated guess than most on here that this was a coping mechanism for sensory overload
Educated guesses can lead to unconscious biased. It is still that, a guess.

They know the trigger points, and they know what the alternatives were should they try to force their son to get dressed
Some do and some not as much. Just like no parents are the same. Some know exactly how to deal with their children, some learn as they go and some remain clueless. This is why many need outside support. Are you saying that all parents of disabled children know exactly how to best manage their children's condition in all circumstances?

I'm not making any excuses for anyone. I just don't like when people don't practice what they teach. No more then people thinking they know it all and inevitably better than anyone else.

This is why I prefer communication with the people directly involved. They are always best to speak for themselves.

But, don't you see, it's not all about the child and/or its family. Other diners do not know the child or its issues - and nor should they. You're right, the child eating with its top off doesn't impact them in any great way - but they ARE allowed not to like it.
What you personally think about that is irrelevant.

It's family?

X

No he shouldn’t be sat there topless, regardless of autism. I appreciate that people have their issues but what if it was a 9 year old girl? Who 2 years later is an 11 year old girl and so on. Is she going to be allowed to sit there topless? I hope not. Autistic or not, I’m sure he doesn’t spend his life topless, so as his parents, they need to figure it out.

I appreciate that people have their issues but what if it was a 9 year old girl? Who 2 years later is an 11 year old girl and so on
But he isn't a girl and not 11years. Maybe, they are making the most of it now because they know in a couple of years, they know it won't be possible any longer.

Well they’ve had 8 or 9 years to do that and clearly they either haven’t or it hasn’t worked. So in 20 years from now is he going to be leisurely enjoying his meal out without his top on?

His parents have figured it out. It’s how he copes when things get too much for him. A coping mechanism. Do you think they don’t know their child ? Whataboutery doesn’t help. And this thread is full of it to try to excuse the posters who would happily have the boy and his family thrown out because onlookers can’t make allowances for the fact that the behaviour may be down to disability.

🥱

Who are you to judge ? How do you know what professional input he has ? How do you know that the trip to the restaurant wasn’t part of therapy ? I’ll tell you what’s likely to be happening in 20 years time shall l? And it won’t be a leisurely meal without his top on. In 20 years time, the appalling lack of funding for proper support means that he and his family will likely be isolated and at their wits end. And utterly ignorant attitudes like this will have played a part in that. Christ.

Might be a yawn to you now, but l guarantee one day your horrible attitude will come back to bite you on the arse. Very apt username.

My niece is 15 and has Downs Syndrome. She likes to lift her skirt up. Therefore she doesn’t wear a skirt in public because it’s inappropriate for her to do so.
seems to me this lads parents need to figure something out, such as putting a top on him that he will actually wear as I bet he doesn’t sit at school topless and didn’t get to the restaurant topless.

Downs Syndrome and Autism are not the same thing. At all. And there’s enough information on this thread for you to educate yourself in the basics instead of just going ahead and posting ignorant crap.

Didn’t say they were the same thing did I? But sometimes rules need to be followed whether a person likes them or not. Otherwise we are just a lawless society.

And it’s all the fault of autistic people isn’t it ? Autism isn’t an excuse for anything. It’s a disability with varying degrees of severity. As evidenced here by posters with actual lived experience of it. I can’t begin to imagine how you can condemn something as bullshit when it’s clear you don’t know the first thing about it.

Ignorant in the extreme. Goady, ableist and offensive. Well done. You win the thread.