Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

I really welcome suggestions of places we can eat out & be amongst the community without feeling like pariahs ❤️

It was my post you quoted, and I said no such thing.

I don't think there's any point engaging you, you seem determined to take offence where none was intended.

Reactionary response helps no one, you'll just silence.

Not necessarily eating out but do you have any sensory centres near by? Our local one has sensory play and a hydrotherapy pool you can use which is great. They also do a lot of different groups and things.

its one of the few places DS feels safe.

Yeah, non-disabled people want to defend their privilege. I get it.

The answer is that people who are currently excluded and whose lives are shortened and blighted by the daily experience of discrimination and stigma get to enjoy being part of society to the same extent as other people. Other people need to accept they need to share the good things that make lives meaningful. They don't get to exercise a monopoly (unless of course they believe other people's lives aren't worth quite the same as theirs, or that some people aren't quite human).

Are you claiming that no woman for example every dresses 'skimpily in a restaurant?

The young man is no more at risk than someone with their shoulders and chest or legs showing. Posters are just dressing up their disdain for neurodivergence and disability as concern.

I'm really torn.

I was about to echo the other poster who said "fully clothed or leave" but....

....I then realised there can often be women going to restaurants who I wouldn't consider "fully clothed" * so....

If the restaurant would also ask those women to leave then they can also reasonably ask this family to leave. If they can honestly say they wouldn't then the child has a right to remain IMO.

*think criss cross bandage type 'tops' exposing side boob, underboob etc..dresses with slits so high you see too much when they sit..perhaps I've been watching too much reality TV.

@Abbimae entitled??!

and it’s certainly a less likely place where someone seeking to sexually exploit a child would be than, let’s say a beach.

So do you not allow your child to wear a swim costume on the beach?

@preview81

I have been over this multiple times. Perhaps re-read my replies.
I have said I don't like young children wearing tiny bikinis. I have said also that my young child wears swimming costumes and sunsuits.

Predators will go and sit in cafes and restaurants, you know.

And again, before what I say gets twisted, I know it's vanishingly rare. And again, I am in therapy, working on this due to past trauma.

But the whole thread is not about compromise is it, the 8 year old child isn’t actually causing any harm to anyone or disturbing them unless they choose to be offended. How are other people losing out in this particular case that the thread is about. When he is 28 and still doing this the parents will most probably not take him out at all.

Bless you and your past I'm not being unkind to you - i get how that changes your view.

That said - predators are predators are predators regardless of the situation . They're not going to suddenly pounce because a child has their top off

I have seen a lot of excuses made on this thread as to why this disabled child should be made to conform, burns and predators etc and in all honesty it's pathetic.

The child I mentioned is disabled you doughnut! That was the whole point of my post. Kid A needs lights dimmed due to sensory issues, kid B melts down when that happens because of trauma. Kid A is loud and shrieks due to his needs, kid B melts down because of sensory overload.
Kid A takes his top off because of sensory needs, kid B melts down because it is unexpected, and it shouldn’t happen and in their white and black thinking it’s wrong and no one does anything so what other “wrong” or even bad things might happen.

And so on. How do you manage it all and ensure all their needs are met? Who takes priority?

My husband commented on the fact the dad sat there with his head in his phone and didn't help or support his wife who was visibly upset. He also pointed out that a lot of people were staring at the child taking his clothes off and said it was unusual but people shouldn't be staring. Which i agree with.

The poster said no such thing. They described a situation where the balance between inclusivity and compromise became so heavily weighted on one side that it no longer serves the needs for one group.

Wouldn’t that be a shame though? Isn’t it better to try and adapt and adjust and find things that could possibly work now, rather than being completely isolated at 28?

if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. Sometimes, some people end up that way anyway, but there’s no harm in trying or for parents of children that are ND to be vilified, called names, judged and shamed for trying.

It's true, that would be a difficult situation; sometimes, there's no right answer...hell, sometimes there are no good answers at all.

However, that's not the situation the OP described.

In the situation at hand, it makes sense to me that the restaurant look for the solution of least harm and most empathy to all parties. The folk complaining might - at most - be a bit uncomfortable if told that it's OK; the family with the topless child would effectively be denied service if told that it's not. Therefore, the topless child stays.

"It’s absolutely fine to create an environment where their needs are catered for, but this shouldn’t come at the price of other groups losing out."

Why are the other groups more important?

It’s the parents who I criticised earlier. If your child has any additional needs you raise it with the venue beforehand and find a compromise, for example a table where the half dressed child is less likely to be noticed by other diners. You don’t just rock up and expect everyone to embrace your needs.

I think most eateries exercise the no nipple rule! That said, we see plenty of stories in the media about women refused entry to places because they're wearing crop tops and such like.

I think it's rightly or wrongly borne from a somewhat out of date notion that choice of clothing equates to respect for others/the environment you're in; the notion of maintaining order if you will.

Wouldn’t bother me but where do you draw the line? When he is an adult? Not ideal from a hygiene point of view. Also would it be the same for a wee girl who could be developing at that age? It’s a shame but it’s not really necessary in life to go to restaurants so j would probably not go if I was the parents.

Sorry , I went into a more general point as the discussion evolved, because that poster assumes it’s only NT /non disabled people that have an issue with these situations when that’s not the case at all.

As an aside, this specific situation wouldn’t bother me, or many others mentioned.

The issue of entitlement is not that disabled people should never disturbed non disabled people and therefore never be taken to public places.

There is a big difference between this family, as an example, explaining to staff that this might happen and to the tables right next to them, without making a massive big deal of it but explaining that however much they tried to stop it, forcing him to dress up would lead to huge tantrums. Adding that they wanted to come out as it's such a rare occasion and they hope they don't mind.

Compared to the way that family acted, expecting everyone to accept a non conventional situation that could be upsetting for some and complain when things don't go their way.

Yes, it's annoying to have to explain every time but that the compromise such families should make if they expect others to respect that their meal might be disturbed.

I would be cross if I went for a meal and a kid screamed his heart out through it, but if the family explained why it can't be stopped and apologise for the disturbance, I would smile, say that I understand and tolerate it. Such a different scenario.