Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

@Morph22010

Perhaps.

He had his head stuck in his phone for most of the time. It was absolutely clear that the mother needed more support.

My son is autistic and to be honest most of the time his dad just makes a bad situation worse so I’d probably be glad he wasn’t interfering

Perhaps the mother is autistic too but still expected to do all the care.

Yes that’s generally the case in my experience!

So similar to our situation, I'm so sorry x

You weren't there, I was! The mother was visibly upset. The father was sat there not giving her any support or comfort

Maybe he didn’t agree with what she was doing either and knows she’s shout him down?

The part that society, perhaps, has played in this is the selling of a falsehood; an unattainable ideal of inclusivity. The simple truth is that the majority of people will find incessant noise in an environment (such as a restaurant/cafe) they're paying to feel at ease and relaxed in intolerable. It's not remotely personal, but still it must be very difficult to accept it as such.

There is a cafe in my town that had made inclusivity a bit of a USP (albeit inadvertantly). They're not a chain. I know the owner, and she's in constant flux because her business is now the go to for support workers and the young people and adults they support. She has lost much of her previous custom - lots of families used to take their toddlers because she has a play area, however they don't go now because of the routine noise, angry outbursts and such like. She's faced with either a re-brand or just shutting up shop (sadly I think the latter is inevitable).

I wouldn't be leaving a review on their behalf.

It's obviously tricky as the child has autism and taking his top off is maybe something he does routinely when eating, for whatever reason.

That said, it isn't the done thing to sit in restaurants and take off your top to eat. It just isn't.

I get that it is difficult for the parents, I really do, but there are certain situations where certain accommodations just won't be possible.

I guess I'm just wondering where places exist for people like my family? My son has zero understanding, so no amount of explaining about societal boundaries will impact his behaviour.

We've spent our life savings on behavioural therapy, OT, SALT for him - to no positive effect.

Reading these posts makes me increasingly anxious about even attempting to access any space within our community for fear we ruin someone else's lunch.

I'm so painfully lonely, exhausted & can't see any hope for our future.

Where should they go? Where should parents with children with severe learning disabilities & challenging behaviours go?

How old is your son, and is he active to any support (health and social) services?

I am sorry to read of your experiences @PatheticDistraction. I hope other people reading this thread who do not have lived experience of conditions with this level of impact on their family take a second to pause and reflect.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this situation, MN is awash with threads and posters proclaiming that autistic children should only be allowed in their child's classroom/party/a restaurant if they can behave as though they weren't autistic, and further, it's the child's parent's fault if they fail to teach them how to do this. Autism gets reduced to the moral defects of care givers who 'let' their children be not 'normal' and who therefore deserved to be shamed and excluded.

There is a phenomenally enduring belief that everyone can and should be 'normal' eg, just like them, and it is only feckless people who have children who aren't.

Parents of autistic children pay a dreadful price in their own mental health, not just because of the challenges of dealing with their child's distress in a world in which their needs are not met and families receive little support, but because they are doing that whilst being judged, attacked and stigmatised by bystanders who feel it is their business to criticise and shame anyone who isn't behaving 'normally'.

Have a look at the evidence on what these sorts of attitudes and behaviours by 'normal' people like PPs on this thread do to care givers and autistic people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6450836/

Ah, so perhaps asylums would be the answer, so you can go about your business in peace? Recent history is littered with such solutions, and far worse, based on narratives just like yours, that 'these' people are not like us, and do not belong with us, because they disturb us.

@SloaneStreetVandal - he's 5, we were previously part of portage, he has a disability social worker, we're part of our county's disability parents group which run activities - although none our son has been able to access yet. All of our children's needs are at odds with one another, so trying to socialise or enjoy the experience is impossible.

We live rurally (for his sensory needs & safety - but also as I do adhoc care for my mother who has dementia & lives close by) groups & activities are limited - our son can also only tolerate the car for short periods before he hurts himself (head banging, pulling his hair out, biting himself).

We applied for respite twice - but turned down until he's older.

I know it's selfish, but I just want to be able to have lunch or a coffee with my family, to be part of normal life once more, not on the fringes.

I hate that our very existence ruins people's experience & puts them off their food. But that is the reality.

The part that society, perhaps, has played in this is the selling of a falsehood; an unattainable ideal of inclusivity. The simple truth is that the majority of people will find incessant noise in an environment (such as a restaurant/cafe) they're paying to feel at ease and relaxed in intolerable. It's not remotely personal, but still it must be very difficult to accept it as such.

I'm not sure how you can read @PatheticDistraction's posts and decide that your right to be guaranteed a cup of tea in peace on every occasion you visit a cafe trumps her family's needs to remain part of society.

A child of that age without a top on is surely not an issue for anyone? I would definitely think the restaurant should make an exception for a child with autism.

I don’t think there was a need to react to this post the way you did. All of this is about compromise, and this works both ways. Nobody is saying that people/ children with disabilities should not be allowed in public spaces. It’s absolutely fine to create an environment where their needs are catered for, but this shouldn’t come at the price of other groups losing out.

Ah, so perhaps asylums would be the answer, so you can go about your business in peace?

You see if disagree with you there.

Children with ASD generally feel overwhelmed - it’s them that need the peace and quiet to cope.

My friends go rock climbing for example - I wouldn’t fit in so don’t go - it’s not my thing -

Same for anyone really - it you can’t cope you don’t go.

DD doesn’t like the cinema, so we don’t go, she is scared in shops unless I take her, so DH doesn’t:

She likes soft things, so like PP we buy soft clothing.

She has never taken her top off in public.

I wouldn’t allow it:

Any suggestions for us?

Background on DS - loud vocal tics, non verbal, no receptive language, self injurious behaviours & spitting as communication.

Reading these posts reaffirms there is nowhere for us.

PP posted that the 'inclusion of disabled people has gone too far' as allowing disabled people in cafes was disturbing.

Wouldnt bother me at all

@Irisginger what do you do when you have children /adults with contrasting needs in the same place?That set each other off? Who takes priority?

Maybe not in this case , though I can think of one kid I work with who would get highly anxious and frustrated in this scenario to the point of meltdown because it's "wrong,wrong,wrong", but in general?

Inclusion for all is a myth.

Who are all these people who think an 8 year old without a top is inappropriate? He’s a child? You’re all nuts

@PatheticDistraction I have some suggestions for you , but I fear you might find them insulting. I don't know. It's difficult. None of those behaviours would particularly bother me.

Not necessarily. My son is in his 20’s. He doesn’t understand that being naked in public is a bad thing, he doesn’t have that level of understanding. Stripping naked in public, we have managed to control to a certain extent but we are always on high alert when out . But there are slip ups like he took his swimming shorts off when he got out of the public pool just last week. So now we’ll find a private pool to rent because the risk is too high with him being an adult.