Torn on this. Autistic little lad in restaurant.

[EggsBenedick]

Hi all,

I firstly want to make clear that I am not wanting this to be a bunfight or an ableist type of thread. I'm genuinely interested to hear people's views on this, as the family in question have asked to put in a complaint to the restaurant along with them.

We were eating an all you can eat type place, mostly Indian / Bangladeshi cuisine. I've added this as this may be relevant from a culture perspective.

It's a nice place, not somewhere too posh but not your run of the mill everything you can eat for a tenna place. Was quite busy in there too.

Seated next to us was a family of 3, with a little lad about aged 8 or 9. After he came back with his plate of food he took his jumper and T shirt off. People were looking over but the parents didnt seem bothered by it.

A member of staff came over and asked the parents if the boy could put his top back on. The member of staff was pretty polite initially. The parents refused to ask the boy to put his top back on. The staff member then went to get another member of staff, who came over and said he just put his top back on during the meal or they would have to leave. The mum then said to the waiter 'if we put his top on he will just scream the place down and ruin everything for everyone'. And explained that the child is autistic.

The parents made no effort to put the top back on the boy.
The staff member said to the family that they would have to eat quickly and leave. By this point the mother was visibly upset and indirectly spoke to us saying 'I wish my son could just be accepted.'

The boy was completely topless in the middle of the restaurant with lots of other diners around.
They had a few mouthfuls and came over to our table and asked if we would leave a Google review complaining about their time at the restaurant and how they aren't inclusive or family friendly.

AIBU to be torn in this? I'm genuinely intrigued to hear people's opinions on this. I could see how difficult it was for the mum. But on one hand I think the parents should've at least tried to put the T shirt on the child as it's not appropriate for a child of that age to be topless in a restaurant. But, the child shouldn't be confined to their home to eat. I would be concerned about strangers / men looking at my semi - naked child most of all.

I don't think I am going to do a review as I can see it from the restaurants POV also. I said to the mum that I was sorry she had such a stressful time. She clearly needed support. The dad didn't say or do a lot which was most helpful!

Tricky situation for the restaurant, because their business relies on all their customers having a good dining experience. I don't think this is uncommon either, I've saw several examples recently about autistic children in restaurants, and their family being asked to leave for various reasons (noise, disruption etc). I don't know what the answer/solution is 🤷‍♀️
It's worth saying that some people just don't like kids (of any description) in restaurants!

I think it's ridiculous people are making false comparisons to trousers off etc.

Stick to the facts.

I was referring to the law you cited, that all behaviors which may be caused by the respective disability are protected by the disability act and the person cannot be asked to leave. There are behaviors that are just not ever appropriate in public. So regardless of laws, parents need to set and enforce boundaries.

Look I don't want to see anybody's nipples if I'm eating out. I'm paying to have a pleasant, ideally low stress, experience.

I have two sons who are ASD. My husband and I spent a long time getting them to behave in socially acceptable ways and finding clothes they felt comfortable in wearing. (At one stage we had a vast collection of socks without toe seams.) If they ever misbehaved in a place one of us would take the child outside. We impressed on them that the world wouldn't bend for them and that that they had to do their best to fit in. As they got older they would ask how to do things like picking up a prescription or making an appointment or handling a debit card.

Now I know we had children who were very high functioning and I know there are children where this approach is impossible or there is a lone parent who can't take them out leaving other children behind. But when this 8 year old is 28 nobody is going to find the sight of him eating topless in a restaurant acceptable either. The restaurant is entitled to have its own rules. Presumably this family did not check with them prior to booking about their tolerance for topless 8 year old diners. I know one very successful establishment which bans children totally.

This is MN. When have you ever seen a thread where everyone has stuck to the facts ? By a few pages in there’s always whataboutery and posters making things up.

Not every ND child will have the same response to attempts to set boundaries. It depends on how well their cognitive ability is developed and therefore their ability to self regulate. Because it’s a disability. Hence the law to protect their rights as disabled people - which you’re now saying we should just disregard if that disability is severe ?

So that being the case, it would be OK to ask other disabled people to conform to ‘socially acceptable’ rules in public, regardless of their ability to do so, so as not to make others feel uncomfortable ?

And you know that if the parent of an ND child recognises that they are on the point of meltdown then a restaurant, in the middle of a meal maybe isn’t the right time or place to teach him. Right ? If he’s experiencing sensory overload then taking off the t shirt may be a coping mechanism for that, and not allowing him to do that may tip him into meltdown. He’s eight. Hopefully he will learn. But at his own pace, and in his own way. Not at the behest of an intolerant public who have little understanding of these conditions, and if this thread is anything to go by, little interest in learning or affording reasonable adjustment - just conform, or else.

"While I agree that some autistic children will learn to regulate themselves better as they get older, plenty can't and won't. "

Since I have never seen an adult topless in a restaurant I am guessing that pretty much everyone does learn to regulate/ the people caring for them find ways of enabling them to cope by the time clothes off is actually an issue.

This.

These parents clearly think the restaurant is liable, though personally I think the parents should have Ben watching the baby better

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/baby-horrible-burns-hot-soup-28891219

My DS is non verbal, ASD with a significant learning disability - a topless child is so much preferable to one having a meltdown.

I am so much less judgemental now - my son screams intermittently- these are his tics, it's not a case of him learning not to as some have suggested - it's not always that simple.

It does mean, as a family we are incredibly isolated - there is really nowhere for us. We can't even go to the 'quiet' SEN sessions, as my son is incapable of being quiet. I haven't partaken in an enjoyable activity for 3 years. We were even told to shut the fuck up at a beach recently.

We don't have family to step in and care for him & have been turned down for respite. There is a point that everything that makes life worth living is no longer a possibility.

But many disabled adults disappear from view? For parents like me, we stop even trying to partake in normal life.

But the point about health snd safety here is the clothing issue. And it doesn’t stand up if the restaurant allows people dressed skimpily with large areas of bare skin exposed. I doubt the diners who complained gave a second thought to the childs’ safety. As one poster here so charmingly put it ‘I don’t want to see anyones’ nipples while I’m eating.’

Have you seen children topless in restaurants ?

I’m so sorry this has happened to you. I would have hoped that we had moved away from such attitudes as society, but looking at some of the ignorance and unthinking judgement on display here, clearly we haven’t. Disability is never cut and dried and we’d all do well to remember that the effects we see fleetingly as onlookers, are permanent for the sufferer and those who love and support them.

I remember going out for a meal with my late father in law. Two women were lunching at a nearby table. They were both visibly/audibly different. One had spoke in a montone and had extremely halting speech. The other had a head that was unusually shaped and not in proportion to her rather small body. There was a waking aid by the table.They were enjoying their meal and chatting. They were being well looked after by the staff, and my impression was they were regulars there.

My late father in law, who was in his nineties, kept turning his head, tutting and clicking, saying in a - rather too loud - undertone that there ought to be 'special places' for people like that.

Some posters here have reminded me of my father in law.

When I go out for a meal with family I am focused on looking at and talking to them and enjoying their company. I couldn’t really give a toss if some little kid is topless at another table I’m not sitting at.

The restaurant should have backed off once the mum explained he was autistic. If he was screaming non-stop then yes it’s an issue, you have to balance his needs with those of all the other diners, but a topless 8 year old really isn’t worth making a fuss about.

Attitudes like this are the reason disability legislation is needed. Autism isn’t an ‘excuse’ for anything. It’s a disability - the effects of which are difficult and distressing. I suggest you read the post from@PatheticDistraction because it’s’ this kind of ill informed judgement that’s pushed her and her family into isolation.

It’s so sad to think that this is what society has come to.

We became isolated years ago.

We tried including our disabled son but it didn’t work. Eating in cafes on holiday meant one of us would sit with the siblings eating while the other drove our disabled child around, I’d ring to say I’d finished eating so we could swap over and let my husband eat while I drove around.

Eventually, holidays stopped altogether.

Even in the supermarket, I’ve had the checkout woman ask how I could put up with that noise. Online shopping now makes that easier.

To the posters saying you must be able to train these children because you don’t see adults doing that, it’s because we’ve been worn down so badly, we now hide from society.

I'm so sorry.

You weren't there, I was! The mother was visibly upset. The father was sat there not giving her any support or comfort.

You're the one being goady.

Family Need to be less entitled

Perhaps the father is autistic, it is a condition that runs in families